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>> came to work jobs no one else would take > If there are jobs that are structured such that only an illegal immigrant, who by definition exists outside the n

>> came to work jobs no one else would take > If there are jobs that are structured such that only an illegal immigrant, who by definition exists outside the normal labor pool and its protections, will take Typically, that statement also refers to jobs that are perfectly legal, but most Americans wouldn't take anyway. For example, many of the experienced people reading this wouldn't drive a cab, deliver pizzas, work as unskilled construction labor, a dishwasher or a janitor if they became unemployed. They'd continue to look for their next IT job. And they'd be choosy about that - not selling computers at Best Buy, for example. (I'm not putting down those jobs; personally I respect any work.)

forthefuture 10y ago
It's just not true that Americans wouldn't take these jobs. If Americans won't take jobs at $2 an hour that doesn't mean Americans are big assholes who leave food on the table, it means that companies are big assholes that want to profit seek at the cost of legal employment. If you actually noticed a shortage of employees in these jobs, their salaries would necessarily go up to attract more. This is the natural process of the labor market.
- lt06u6xu7v 10y ago
  I live in a house with a lawn. I don't like maintaining it, but I'm required to. I looked into the cost of having it done by a legitimate service, and found that the least I could pay is about $100 to have it serviced twice a month. That's not worth it to me, so I continued maintaining it myself, begrudgingly. Then I heard around the neighborhood that there's a guy who will touch it up every weekend for $50 a month. Miguel does a really good job. I didn't know my hedges could look this good. I didn't know the rosebushes were supposed to be cut at a 45 degree angle. The way I see it, everyone is better off here. I don't have to mow the lawn anymore. Miguel is better off than he was in Mexico. My $50 is going to the real economy instead of sitting in some account inflating the price of some shitty bond. This transaction is raising global GDP, improving global unemployment, creating consumer surplus, lowering the global Gini coefficient, and raising everyone's utility. What's the problem?
dragonwriter 10y ago
I've done almost all of those things before (general maintenance rather than construction, and I've never driven a cab) -- including retail sales at an electronics chain (Radio Shack before Best Buy was the thing) -- and would again if I didn't have better prospects elsewhere (with my experience and expectations of the future labor market, I don't expect to need to do any of those things again, but that's a different thing than being unwilling to consider it if there was a need.) I suspect that's not all that uncommon here (well, maybe not having done as many of the less-skilled jobs you talk about, but not being unwilling if it was genuinely the best prospect.)
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  I have a feeling you are more like the average person here. When the economy goes into a recession, or our current line of work is down sized; we take a chit job. Only the elite can wait around until something palatable opens up. My problem with people so desperate for money, is they come here illegailly, or just happen to somehow get some bogus paperwork by the federal government, and will do practically any job. A large swath of American employers know they can use these people, treat them poorly, and make a better ROI in their particuliar business venture. Construction trades--love them. It's gotten so bad, if I took my general contractor's licence out of non-op status, I honest don't know if I could be competitive without hiring the people who will work for minimum wage, or less. ("How do these workers manage to live on the U.S., if you pay them so little? They have different cultural norms than the average American. They see nothing wrong with bunk beds, and four, or more to a residential bedroom. Maybe the average American should get used to living like this; that's another debate.) So basically, my gripe is certain employers are thrilled they can get away with underpaying their employees. If they do it shroudly, they can live the American Dream--nice house, happy wife, a bunch of spoiled kids. There are so many business that use this business model. I have very wealthy neighbors in Marin County. Yes, that liberal enclave north of San Francisco. Literally every landscaper on this block doesn't speak English, nor do most of the plumbers, and handymen. The DINK's like to gab, and a lot of the talk is just how cheap they get their jobs done. My next store neighbor literally brings two low wage helpers to Home Depot in her Mercedes. Their job is to follow her around, in her high heals, and carry her stuff to the car. Then they spend the rest of the day at her disposal. (I'm glad they are doing this job.) In the end, it makes chit jobs hard to find when Americans are layed off, or fired. Before we had this huge sector of society that will literally do anything, for practically noting; chit jobs were better. That was in the 80's, and 90's. By the 2000's it was over. They were here, and spoiled the low wage job sector even further. That's where the anger comes in. It has nothing to do about Trumps claims of "Rapists--and sometimes, good citizens", etc.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mc32 10y ago
Most Americans (as well as non-Americans) would prefer other things, if they had them available. There are poor people out there. I knew a couple who'd sell their blood often (they'd cheat by going to different banks) in order to afford gas to get to a menial job. Another one working home depot, etc. getting minimum wage --I'm not taking about highschoolers working McDonald's or the mall, I mean grownups.
knieveltech 10y ago
Check your assumptions, friend. Pizza delivery drivers in decent areas routinely make more a year than college professors and other more prestigious-but-ultimately-low-paying gigs.

forthefuture 10y ago

It's just not true that Americans wouldn't take these jobs. If Americans won't take jobs at $2 an hour that doesn't mean Americans are big assholes who leave food on the table, it means that companies are big assholes that want to profit seek at the cost of legal employment. If you actually noticed a shortage of employees in these jobs, their salaries would necessarily go up to attract more. This is the natural process of the labor market.

lt06u6xu7v 10y ago
I live in a house with a lawn. I don't like maintaining it, but I'm required to. I looked into the cost of having it done by a legitimate service, and found that the least I could pay is about $100 to have it serviced twice a month. That's not worth it to me, so I continued maintaining it myself, begrudgingly. Then I heard around the neighborhood that there's a guy who will touch it up every weekend for $50 a month. Miguel does a really good job. I didn't know my hedges could look this good. I didn't know the rosebushes were supposed to be cut at a 45 degree angle. The way I see it, everyone is better off here. I don't have to mow the lawn anymore. Miguel is better off than he was in Mexico. My $50 is going to the real economy instead of sitting in some account inflating the price of some shitty bond. This transaction is raising global GDP, improving global unemployment, creating consumer surplus, lowering the global Gini coefficient, and raising everyone's utility. What's the problem?

dragonwriter 10y ago

I've done almost all of those things before (general maintenance rather than construction, and I've never driven a cab) -- including retail sales at an electronics chain (Radio Shack before Best Buy was the thing) -- and would again if I didn't have better prospects elsewhere (with my experience and expectations of the future labor market, I don't expect to need to do any of those things again, but that's a different thing than being unwilling to consider it if there was a need.) I suspect that's not all that uncommon here (well, maybe not having done as many of the less-skilled jobs you talk about, but not being unwilling if it was genuinely the best prospect.)

icantdrive55 10y ago
I have a feeling you are more like the average person here. When the economy goes into a recession, or our current line of work is down sized; we take a chit job. Only the elite can wait around until something palatable opens up. My problem with people so desperate for money, is they come here illegailly, or just happen to somehow get some bogus paperwork by the federal government, and will do practically any job. A large swath of American employers know they can use these people, treat them poorly, and make a better ROI in their particuliar business venture. Construction trades--love them. It's gotten so bad, if I took my general contractor's licence out of non-op status, I honest don't know if I could be competitive without hiring the people who will work for minimum wage, or less. ("How do these workers manage to live on the U.S., if you pay them so little? They have different cultural norms than the average American. They see nothing wrong with bunk beds, and four, or more to a residential bedroom. Maybe the average American should get used to living like this; that's another debate.) So basically, my gripe is certain employers are thrilled they can get away with underpaying their employees. If they do it shroudly, they can live the American Dream--nice house, happy wife, a bunch of spoiled kids. There are so many business that use this business model. I have very wealthy neighbors in Marin County. Yes, that liberal enclave north of San Francisco. Literally every landscaper on this block doesn't speak English, nor do most of the plumbers, and handymen. The DINK's like to gab, and a lot of the talk is just how cheap they get their jobs done. My next store neighbor literally brings two low wage helpers to Home Depot in her Mercedes. Their job is to follow her around, in her high heals, and carry her stuff to the car. Then they spend the rest of the day at her disposal. (I'm glad they are doing this job.) In the end, it makes chit jobs hard to find when Americans are layed off, or fired. Before we had this huge sector of society that will literally do anything, for practically noting; chit jobs were better. That was in the 80's, and 90's. By the 2000's it was over. They were here, and spoiled the low wage job sector even further. That's where the anger comes in. It has nothing to do about Trumps claims of "Rapists--and sometimes, good citizens", etc.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mc32 10y ago

Most Americans (as well as non-Americans) would prefer other things, if they had them available. There are poor people out there. I knew a couple who'd sell their blood often (they'd cheat by going to different banks) in order to afford gas to get to a menial job. Another one working home depot, etc. getting minimum wage --I'm not taking about highschoolers working McDonald's or the mall, I mean grownups.

knieveltech 10y ago

Check your assumptions, friend. Pizza delivery drivers in decent areas routinely make more a year than college professors and other more prestigious-but-ultimately-low-paying gigs.