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Someone was telling me recently that all the cheap heroin influx into the country from Mexico was the result of drug cartels losing market to marijuana and need

by jxramos 10y ago

Someone was telling me recently that all the cheap heroin influx into the country from Mexico was the result of drug cartels losing market to marijuana and needing to come up with a cheap competitor substitute. Not sure if that was accurate or not but sort of sounds intuitive in an economic sense. I'm still surprised how marijuana posts are so frequently pushed in HN. My take is that the effect is negative, I've seen just a ton more brazen usage out in public once this thing hit with a bunch of phony Dr prescriptions given to perfectly healthy people. It's all a ruse in my book, you're either growing in virtue or backsliding. At best drug use is suboptimal for a thriving philo-generative culture to borrow Daniel Hannan's phrase.

tetrep 10y ago
> I've seen just a ton more brazen usage out in public once this thing hit with a bunch of phony Dr prescriptions given to perfectly healthy people. Is that bad? You menition "backsliding" later in your comment, do you mean to imply drug use is regressive? If so, that's probably why many people on HN disagree with you.
thoman23 10y ago
Depends on what you're optimizing for I guess.
phil248 10y ago
"It's all a ruse in my book" Hence the desire for legalization and proper regulation, to be rid of the phony prescriptions and have set rules on where use is acceptable.
exclusiv 10y ago
Public usage can and should be managed locally as another topic though don't you think? As far as recreational use, fundamentally, should it be the responsibility of the government to tell you what you can and can't ingest? I don't think it is. I think sin taxes are stupid too. But I do understand drug usage is a concern and suboptimal for a lot of people. I don't smoke nor have I ever tried it, except for one cigar. I'm asthmatic and I didn't like people smoking cigarettes in public places because smoking sections back in the day weren't contained. Now - smoking is generally considered uncool and it's hard to do in most public places. I've been to smoke free cities which is their right and I think that's how it should be. Whatever side you're on - the evidence doesn't back up all the claims to keep it criminal.
- viraptor 10y ago
  > sin taxes are stupid too They do work for health benefits though. Tax on tabacco for example does limit the number of people who smoke, which does in turn limit the number of people with cancer and public spending on helping them. Same for sugary drinks tax and obesity.
  - robbrown451 10y ago
    Actually reducing tobacco use can increase public spending on health. Lung cancer tends to take people out pretty quickly, while those who live longer run up higher costs. (that said, I tend to be "pro sin tax")
    - AstralStorm 10y ago
      Lung cancer caused by smoking took about a generation to show up in the statistics. That's very much the converse of "takes people out pretty quickly". That said, most drugs that are schedule I have much more immediate side effects.
      - robbrown451 10y ago
        That's not what I meant by "takes people out quickly." I mean that once someone gets symptoms of lung cancer and needs health care as a result, they die more quickly than someone who is starting to see the symptoms of old age and needs health care for that. I.e. someone who dies at age 60 from lung cancer is less cost to the system than someone who live to 95 and dies of "natural causes." That's not saying lung cancer is good, but it is saying that reducing health care costs is not a good reason to try to reduce smoking.
icanhackit 10y ago
> At best drug use is suboptimal for a thriving philo-generative culture The problem with that sentence is "drug use" shoves everything under one umbrella. Your typical sativa high is a sensitivity to music in the way that sounds are broken down spatially, rhythms and bass seem more appealing, an intensity of thoughts - as in the small things now take on more meaning, imagery seems more interesting, colors pop, and it provides a general sense of relaxation as long as you're in a fairly predictable environment, yet you're in total control. Depending on the inclinations of the user it can be used as a tool or abused like anything else. To compare it to hallucinogens, opiates or amphetamines would be quite silly, despite those substances sharing some of those characteristics.
mbrock 10y ago
I can't find anything on the Internet to explain what this Daniel Hannan guy might have meant by "philo-generative culture."

by jxramos 10y ago

tetrep 10y ago

> I've seen just a ton more brazen usage out in public once this thing hit with a bunch of phony Dr prescriptions given to perfectly healthy people. Is that bad? You menition "backsliding" later in your comment, do you mean to imply drug use is regressive? If so, that's probably why many people on HN disagree with you.

thoman23 10y ago

Depends on what you're optimizing for I guess.

phil248 10y ago

"It's all a ruse in my book" Hence the desire for legalization and proper regulation, to be rid of the phony prescriptions and have set rules on where use is acceptable.

exclusiv 10y ago

Public usage can and should be managed locally as another topic though don't you think? As far as recreational use, fundamentally, should it be the responsibility of the government to tell you what you can and can't ingest? I don't think it is. I think sin taxes are stupid too. But I do understand drug usage is a concern and suboptimal for a lot of people. I don't smoke nor have I ever tried it, except for one cigar. I'm asthmatic and I didn't like people smoking cigarettes in public places because smoking sections back in the day weren't contained. Now - smoking is generally considered uncool and it's hard to do in most public places. I've been to smoke free cities which is their right and I think that's how it should be. Whatever side you're on - the evidence doesn't back up all the claims to keep it criminal.

viraptor 10y ago
> sin taxes are stupid too They do work for health benefits though. Tax on tabacco for example does limit the number of people who smoke, which does in turn limit the number of people with cancer and public spending on helping them. Same for sugary drinks tax and obesity.
- robbrown451 10y ago
  Actually reducing tobacco use can increase public spending on health. Lung cancer tends to take people out pretty quickly, while those who live longer run up higher costs. (that said, I tend to be "pro sin tax")
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    Lung cancer caused by smoking took about a generation to show up in the statistics. That's very much the converse of "takes people out pretty quickly". That said, most drugs that are schedule I have much more immediate side effects.
    - robbrown451 10y ago
      That's not what I meant by "takes people out quickly." I mean that once someone gets symptoms of lung cancer and needs health care as a result, they die more quickly than someone who is starting to see the symptoms of old age and needs health care for that. I.e. someone who dies at age 60 from lung cancer is less cost to the system than someone who live to 95 and dies of "natural causes." That's not saying lung cancer is good, but it is saying that reducing health care costs is not a good reason to try to reduce smoking.

icanhackit 10y ago

> At best drug use is suboptimal for a thriving philo-generative culture The problem with that sentence is "drug use" shoves everything under one umbrella. Your typical sativa high is a sensitivity to music in the way that sounds are broken down spatially, rhythms and bass seem more appealing, an intensity of thoughts - as in the small things now take on more meaning, imagery seems more interesting, colors pop, and it provides a general sense of relaxation as long as you're in a fairly predictable environment, yet you're in total control. Depending on the inclinations of the user it can be used as a tool or abused like anything else. To compare it to hallucinogens, opiates or amphetamines would be quite silly, despite those substances sharing some of those characteristics.

mbrock 10y ago

I can't find anything on the Internet to explain what this Daniel Hannan guy might have meant by "philo-generative culture."