3 ms·

The original thesis I was responding to was the theory that, due to historical experiences, Europeans are somehow much more concerned with personal privacy (in

The original thesis I was responding to was the theory that, due to historical experiences, Europeans are somehow much more concerned with personal privacy (in general) than others, which is is empirically false. State versus corporate surveillance was not the topic. Europeans may indeed be more mistrustful of corporations than others, I don't know; but Europeans are clearly not so concerned about personal privacy in general as compared to others (though they seem to like to believe that they are.) The BND, and its local equivalents in other European countries, are now openly conducting mass surveillance and citizen profiling on a scale that neither the Stasi nor Facebook could ever dream of achieving. Most of the citizens of Europe don't seem to care much at all about this. Therefore, the theory that Europeans are especially privacy-conscious as compared to others is false. Incidentally, with corporate surveillance, you (at least in theory) have the option to simply not use that corporation's products. You can't opt out of state surveillance.

wvh 10y ago
There's a difference between "concerned with personal privacy" and "privacy-conscious". Europeans, like people pretty much anybody in the world, are oblivious, ill-informed or simply don't care about what goes on above their heads or behind their backs. People just want to live their lives. But when revelations and news reports bring up issues concerning privacy violations – by the state, other countries or companies – it does invoke memories and provoke visceral responses. A lot of Europeans are not totally apathetic to privacy concerns, especially when brought to their attention. And Europeans are somewhat irritated with the freedom given to big corporations and (lack of) free market regulation in the US, lumped in with Wall Street and banking systems. In a sense, simplistically put, our current governments are (with) us, while some of those internet giants are billboards of unfettered capitalist excess, trying to exploit us. In short, I do think a lot of Europeans are more concerned about privacy than Americans, once it gets on their radar; and it's always worse when it's done by somebody far away.

wvh 10y ago

There's a difference between "concerned with personal privacy" and "privacy-conscious". Europeans, like people pretty much anybody in the world, are oblivious, ill-informed or simply don't care about what goes on above their heads or behind their backs. People just want to live their lives. But when revelations and news reports bring up issues concerning privacy violations – by the state, other countries or companies – it does invoke memories and provoke visceral responses. A lot of Europeans are not totally apathetic to privacy concerns, especially when brought to their attention. And Europeans are somewhat irritated with the freedom given to big corporations and (lack of) free market regulation in the US, lumped in with Wall Street and banking systems. In a sense, simplistically put, our current governments are (with) us, while some of those internet giants are billboards of unfettered capitalist excess, trying to exploit us. In short, I do think a lot of Europeans are more concerned about privacy than Americans, once it gets on their radar; and it's always worse when it's done by somebody far away.