7 ms·

Whether right or wrong, I think it's good to keep in mind that Apple has, by far the highest quarterly profit and total asset value, compared to any of these co

by j1vms 10y ago

Whether right or wrong, I think it's good to keep in mind that Apple has, by far the highest quarterly profit and total asset value, compared to any of these companies - it really is a giant among giants. Alphabet certainly has an excellent future outlook (reflected in the markets), but its current financial state still pales in comparison to Apple. Taking this into account, I figure Apple thinks twice and thrice before joining industry consortiums and partnerships that they didn't initiate themselves. This would be straightforward posturing/strategizing on their part, and probably doesn't reveal too much about the current state of their R&D in Machine Learning. It's unfortunate that things are this way, but nothing unusual from a "game theory" perspective.

altcognito 10y ago
I also don't think of them as a straight technology company, but more of a best of breed product company focused on a great user experience. In that sense, high risk, long term investments that don't have an immediate application don't fit their profile.
- princeb 10y ago
  > best of breed product company focused on a great user experience somehow i put them in the same category as LG, Samsung and Sony, albeit 100x better at what they do.
  - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
    Apple's fastest growing revenue stream is services. It's already a 20 billion a year profit machine.
    - jordan_litko 10y ago
      Can you give more information on this? I had no idea they had such a potent revenue stream in the services sector.
      - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
        When Apple reported Q3 earnings this year, Tim Cook said that the services revenue would be "the size of a Fortune 100 company by next year."[0] Revenue was ~6 billion in Q3, up 19% from a year prior. That comes out to roughly 20 billion a year. When I saw everyone playing Pokemon Go and buying coins and what have you, I thought of Apple taking a 30% cut of every transaction... The service revenue really is the strongest case for being a bull. Of course this is just my own personal opinion. I own the stock and I'm long on the prospects. I also love the products. Also so much cash! [0] http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-ceo-tim-cook-services-q3-2016-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-ceo-tim-cook-services-q...
  - cybernytrix 10y ago
    Apple has its own OS, compilers, IDE, 2+ languages, various frameworks etc. This is more than what Google, more importantly used a lot by people. But yeah it just a hardware company.
    - mgoodness 10y ago
      Android, ChromeOS, Go, Dart
    - seanp2k2 10y ago
      Yea but Samsung has Bada, Knox, Tizen (partially), JerryScript, Kies, etc
    - bitmapbrother 10y ago
      Not really. Google has Android OS, Chrome OS, Brillo OS, Andromeda OS, Fuchsia OS, Android Studio, Go, Dart, Angular JS, etc...
  - cybernytrix 10y ago
    Apple has its own OS, compilers, IDE, 2+ languages, various frameworks etc. This is more than what Google, more importantly used a lot by people. But yeah it just a hardware company.
- neosat 10y ago
  Technology is broader than just software (though I'm not implying you said it is just software). Apple is a phenomenal technology company - their hardware + software integration is unmatched and they have made advances in everything from software to hardware to supply chain optimization to manufacturing technology. Also, they are ( or at least were) a prime example of a company that can bet on high risk, longish term investments that don't have an immediate application : e.g. their investment in chips, touch technology etc. It may not be as long term as some of the Google X stuff but I don't think it is fair to call them averse to making high risk long term investments.
xenobioticants 10y ago
'it really is a giant among giants.' You're confused. That would be Alphabet, not Apple. To put it in perspective for you, Google has: ~90% of the search market (https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-...) ~90% of the smartphone market (https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphon...) ~50% of the online advertisement market (http://www.emarketer.com/Article/Google-Still-Dominates-World-Search-Ad-Market/1014258 http://www.emarketer.com/Article/Google-Still-Dominates-Worl...) Hell, Google's staff meets with/at the White House more than once a week! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3554953/Google-staffers-meetings-White-House-staggering-427-times-course-Obama-presidency-averaging-week.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3554953/Google-staff...) I can think you can see the point I'm making: yes, Apple has a big pile of cash, a fat amount of profit and high stock value. However, Alphabet its influence and reach is far, far beyond that of Apple. Its just not as flashy & visible. Don't agree? Let's imagine(!) two scenarios. Scenario 1 - the US Government somehow figures out a way to force Apple to pay all its evaded taxes. Apple doesn't agree, and to make a point how important they are, killswitch everything. Results: 10% of the developed world can't use their phone anymore 10% of the developed world can't use their computer anymore An even smaller subset can't access their e-mail Scenario 2 - the US Government somehow figures out a way to force Google to pay all its evaded taxes. Google doesn't agree, and to make a point how important they are, killswitch everything. Results: 90% of the developed world can't use their phone anymore 90%+ (Android owners + Gmail, Gcal etc. users) of the developed world can't access their e-mail, calendars, contacts etc. anymore ??% (decently high) of companies/universities can't access their e-mail, calendars etc., because Google Apps is down ??% has trouble navigating because Google Maps goes down (Other maps are still inaccurate and incomplete outside of the US) ??% of companies experience issues by Google Maps+API being down (Uber springs to mind) Advertising also stops working and paying out (can be switched easily though, so not as critical) Besides that, Alphabet is also involved in a number of moonshot projects. (Level 4) Self-driving cars. immortality research, AI research, LTE balloons, etc. etc. The funny part is that I'm typing this on a 13" Retina MBP, with a iPhone 5S in my pocket. I'm by no means a Google fanboy. I love Apple's vertical integration, the amount of synergy and seamlessness their devices have, and that they're championing individual privacy. Also doesn't hurt that compared to Linux, OS X is a godsend to dev on. I've done enough inebriated rambling so I'm gonna shut up now.. Still gave KAT owner's IP address and all his .icloud e-mails to the FBI without any resistance. WTF?

by j1vms 10y ago

altcognito 10y ago

I also don't think of them as a straight technology company, but more of a best of breed product company focused on a great user experience. In that sense, high risk, long term investments that don't have an immediate application don't fit their profile.

princeb 10y ago
> best of breed product company focused on a great user experience somehow i put them in the same category as LG, Samsung and Sony, albeit 100x better at what they do.
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  Apple's fastest growing revenue stream is services. It's already a 20 billion a year profit machine.
  - jordan_litko 10y ago
    Can you give more information on this? I had no idea they had such a potent revenue stream in the services sector.
    - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
      When Apple reported Q3 earnings this year, Tim Cook said that the services revenue would be "the size of a Fortune 100 company by next year."[0] Revenue was ~6 billion in Q3, up 19% from a year prior. That comes out to roughly 20 billion a year. When I saw everyone playing Pokemon Go and buying coins and what have you, I thought of Apple taking a 30% cut of every transaction... The service revenue really is the strongest case for being a bull. Of course this is just my own personal opinion. I own the stock and I'm long on the prospects. I also love the products. Also so much cash! [0] http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-ceo-tim-cook-services-q3-2016-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-ceo-tim-cook-services-q...
- cybernytrix 10y ago
  Apple has its own OS, compilers, IDE, 2+ languages, various frameworks etc. This is more than what Google, more importantly used a lot by people. But yeah it just a hardware company.
  - mgoodness 10y ago
    Android, ChromeOS, Go, Dart
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Yea but Samsung has Bada, Knox, Tizen (partially), JerryScript, Kies, etc
  - bitmapbrother 10y ago
    Not really. Google has Android OS, Chrome OS, Brillo OS, Andromeda OS, Fuchsia OS, Android Studio, Go, Dart, Angular JS, etc...
- cybernytrix 10y ago
  Apple has its own OS, compilers, IDE, 2+ languages, various frameworks etc. This is more than what Google, more importantly used a lot by people. But yeah it just a hardware company.
neosat 10y ago
Technology is broader than just software (though I'm not implying you said it is just software). Apple is a phenomenal technology company - their hardware + software integration is unmatched and they have made advances in everything from software to hardware to supply chain optimization to manufacturing technology. Also, they are ( or at least were) a prime example of a company that can bet on high risk, longish term investments that don't have an immediate application : e.g. their investment in chips, touch technology etc. It may not be as long term as some of the Google X stuff but I don't think it is fair to call them averse to making high risk long term investments.

xenobioticants 10y ago

'it really is a giant among giants.' You're confused. That would be Alphabet, not Apple. To put it in perspective for you, Google has: ~90% of the search market (https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-share-of-search-engines/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-...) ~90% of the smartphone market (https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphon...) ~50% of the online advertisement market (http://www.emarketer.com/Article/Google-Still-Dominates-World-Search-Ad-Market/1014258 http://www.emarketer.com/Article/Google-Still-Dominates-Worl...) Hell, Google's staff meets with/at the White House more than once a week! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3554953/Google-staffers-meetings-White-House-staggering-427-times-course-Obama-presidency-averaging-week.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3554953/Google-staff...) I can think you can see the point I'm making: yes, Apple has a big pile of cash, a fat amount of profit and high stock value. However, Alphabet its influence and reach is far, far beyond that of Apple. Its just not as flashy & visible. Don't agree? Let's imagine(!) two scenarios. Scenario 1 - the US Government somehow figures out a way to force Apple to pay all its evaded taxes. Apple doesn't agree, and to make a point how important they are, killswitch everything. Results: 10% of the developed world can't use their phone anymore 10% of the developed world can't use their computer anymore An even smaller subset can't access their e-mail Scenario 2 - the US Government somehow figures out a way to force Google to pay all its evaded taxes. Google doesn't agree, and to make a point how important they are, killswitch everything. Results: 90% of the developed world can't use their phone anymore 90%+ (Android owners + Gmail, Gcal etc. users) of the developed world can't access their e-mail, calendars, contacts etc. anymore ??% (decently high) of companies/universities can't access their e-mail, calendars etc., because Google Apps is down ??% has trouble navigating because Google Maps goes down (Other maps are still inaccurate and incomplete outside of the US) ??% of companies experience issues by Google Maps+API being down (Uber springs to mind) Advertising also stops working and paying out (can be switched easily though, so not as critical) Besides that, Alphabet is also involved in a number of moonshot projects. (Level 4) Self-driving cars. immortality research, AI research, LTE balloons, etc. etc. The funny part is that I'm typing this on a 13" Retina MBP, with a iPhone 5S in my pocket. I'm by no means a Google fanboy. I love Apple's vertical integration, the amount of synergy and seamlessness their devices have, and that they're championing individual privacy. Also doesn't hurt that compared to Linux, OS X is a godsend to dev on. I've done enough inebriated rambling so I'm gonna shut up now.. Still gave KAT owner's IP address and all his .icloud e-mails to the FBI without any resistance. WTF?