5 ms·

For many many years, the number one reason people told me why they used apple products was privacy and that with apple I'm not a product. It's how they could ju

by georgyo 10y ago

For many many years, the number one reason people told me why they used apple products was privacy and that with apple I'm not a product. It's how they could justify paying the high premium for apple products. It would be very interesting if they get into the advertising business. Harvesting data about my usage it and using that data to charge more for ads that are well targeted. It would mean that in addition to apple selling a product at a premium, the users would also become a product. Combine this with things like the disappearing head phone jack, and apple is becoming actively hostile towards its users.

nixos 10y ago
Common mistake. If the service is free, you could be the product (on not, like Linux), but you could be the product even if you paid. Many physical newspapers cost money and had ads (even the reputable newspapers such as the NYT), and likely sold your information (whatever they had, that is) to the highest bidder. If they had a way to track you, they would in a heartbeat.
taf2 10y ago
Before they can do that they need to implement a search that actually works... I've never understood why the app stores are not just websites similar to amazon. The goal is to make it easy to locate an app whether you have the device or not- limiting access to the knowledge of the existence of an app seems like a fail in brand awareness.
- palakchokshi 10y ago
  True that Apple's App Store search sucks. I'll give an example: search for Get@ and see the results. Now search for GetAt and you'll see an app called Get@. If you allow @ symbol in the app name then your search should return that app when searched for it.
nerdponx 10y ago
I suspect they're doing it now because they realize they're the last company to _not_ abuse their users' privacy. Now that users have absolutely nowhere else to turn, Apple has no reason not to play that game. Edit: how do i italics
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ljk 10y ago
  *like this* https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
- matt4077 10y ago
  (a) This matches Searches to Apps, not users. (b) The situations you're describing hasn't really changed since Facebook added ads, so they could've had that "realization" much earlier. (c) Apple is positioning itself as a privacy-focused company with (for example) their lawsuit regarding iPhone unlocking and their implementation of differential privacy for their machine learning algorithms. It'd be stupid to give that up and risk a triple-digit-billion-business (iPhone) for what's bound to be a small fraction of that (ads in the App Store).
  - nixos 10y ago
    > It'd be stupid to give that up and risk a triple-digit-billion-business (iPhone) for what's bound to be a small fraction of that (ads in the App Store). You don't have to outrun the bear, just your friend.
    - matt4077 10y ago
      Yeah, but running doesn't just mean "have better privacy" than the competition (i. e. Samsung/Google). Privacy is only one of many dimensions Apple is competing on, and running up the score there may still help them when the competition is better along other dimensions, like those cool self-igniting firework-phones I keep hearing about.
- baddox 10y ago
  I won't try to claim that Apple is or isn't abusing their users' privacy, but they're definitely not new to advertising. They ran iAd for years until they shut it down recently. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd
esotericsean 10y ago
It's extremely difficult to get noticed on the app store because it's so huge now. I think this was a necessary move. Apple does harvest your data, but they don't sell it. You're not a product. The headphone jack is an entirely different situation. It was a necessary move on Apple's part in order to push industry standards towards wireless. I'm sure in a few years, we're all going to laugh about all the wires and cables we used to have everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually Apple got rid of all ports on all their devices.
- sdegutis 10y ago
  But how is this different than selling your data? They're using your data to help developers make money from you, and they get a cut of that money.
- brian-armstrong 10y ago
  Wired headphones aren't going anywhere, Apple or no.
  - jgalt212 10y ago
    in the sense that Lightning did not kill USB, you are correct, sir.
    - roryisok 10y ago
      Android / iPhone are becoming completely incompatible at a hardware level. Lightning instead of USB. No headphones. No SD card. Next it'll be some proprietary SIM card standard. It's almost like their afraid someone is going to crack iOS to run on and Android handset the way macOS can run on a PC
      - obtino 10y ago
        > No SD card. To be fair, the SD card has been abandoned by the Google Nexus line as well. It caused a lot more problems than solved. Now that storage is relatively cheap, more manufacturers are removing it.
zitterbewegung 10y ago
Anyone remember iAds ? They have tried to get into the ad business and failed. Since this is more limited in scope and you can figure out intent better maybe this will be more successful .
downandout 10y ago
This isn't general advertising. It's only on the App Store and is based on the keywords you enter into a search in the store. They rolled this out because it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed anymore on there. Apple haters will use any new product to criticize the company, but this seems fairly benign and fills a need among developers.
- jest3r1 10y ago
  Ahh yes, more fees for developers. > it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed They could improve the search algorithm to solve this. Perhaps redesign the app store UI to better accommodate new apps. Or they could stagnate for years and then solve the problem by charging developers more. I'm not a hater though.
  - downandout 10y ago
    >Ahh yes, more fees for developers. Developers (including myself) are already paying these fees to Google, Facebook and Bing in the form of app install ads. We'll likely get more more bang for the buck directly on the App Store though, so IMO it's a win for developers.
    - jsonne 10y ago
      Your media mix will likely shift, but you'll still be paying Facebook, Google etc. as well. Btw take a look at Twitter if you aren't already. I've had good results there.
      - downandout 10y ago
        Thanks, I will. I had always heard that Twitter sucked for most stuff...glad to hear someone is having a good experience.
        jsonne 10y ago
        Absolutely. Feel free to reach out if you want any in depth advice. (Email is in my profile.)
z3t4 10y ago
I had the same feeling about Microsoft and I'm currently moving away from that platform. Most users seem OK with being tracked and identified so I doubt they will lose business because of it. At least until the new third reich comes by and exterminate those they don't like.

by georgyo 10y ago

nixos 10y ago

Common mistake. If the service is free, you could be the product (on not, like Linux), but you could be the product even if you paid. Many physical newspapers cost money and had ads (even the reputable newspapers such as the NYT), and likely sold your information (whatever they had, that is) to the highest bidder. If they had a way to track you, they would in a heartbeat.

taf2 10y ago

Before they can do that they need to implement a search that actually works... I've never understood why the app stores are not just websites similar to amazon. The goal is to make it easy to locate an app whether you have the device or not- limiting access to the knowledge of the existence of an app seems like a fail in brand awareness.

palakchokshi 10y ago
True that Apple's App Store search sucks. I'll give an example: search for Get@ and see the results. Now search for GetAt and you'll see an app called Get@. If you allow @ symbol in the app name then your search should return that app when searched for it.

nerdponx 10y ago

I suspect they're doing it now because they realize they're the last company to _not_ abuse their users' privacy. Now that users have absolutely nowhere else to turn, Apple has no reason not to play that game. Edit: how do i italics

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ljk 10y ago
*like this* https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
matt4077 10y ago
(a) This matches Searches to Apps, not users. (b) The situations you're describing hasn't really changed since Facebook added ads, so they could've had that "realization" much earlier. (c) Apple is positioning itself as a privacy-focused company with (for example) their lawsuit regarding iPhone unlocking and their implementation of differential privacy for their machine learning algorithms. It'd be stupid to give that up and risk a triple-digit-billion-business (iPhone) for what's bound to be a small fraction of that (ads in the App Store).
- nixos 10y ago
  > It'd be stupid to give that up and risk a triple-digit-billion-business (iPhone) for what's bound to be a small fraction of that (ads in the App Store). You don't have to outrun the bear, just your friend.
  - matt4077 10y ago
    Yeah, but running doesn't just mean "have better privacy" than the competition (i. e. Samsung/Google). Privacy is only one of many dimensions Apple is competing on, and running up the score there may still help them when the competition is better along other dimensions, like those cool self-igniting firework-phones I keep hearing about.
baddox 10y ago
I won't try to claim that Apple is or isn't abusing their users' privacy, but they're definitely not new to advertising. They ran iAd for years until they shut it down recently. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd

esotericsean 10y ago

It's extremely difficult to get noticed on the app store because it's so huge now. I think this was a necessary move. Apple does harvest your data, but they don't sell it. You're not a product. The headphone jack is an entirely different situation. It was a necessary move on Apple's part in order to push industry standards towards wireless. I'm sure in a few years, we're all going to laugh about all the wires and cables we used to have everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually Apple got rid of all ports on all their devices.

sdegutis 10y ago
But how is this different than selling your data? They're using your data to help developers make money from you, and they get a cut of that money.
brian-armstrong 10y ago
Wired headphones aren't going anywhere, Apple or no.
- jgalt212 10y ago
  in the sense that Lightning did not kill USB, you are correct, sir.
  - roryisok 10y ago
    Android / iPhone are becoming completely incompatible at a hardware level. Lightning instead of USB. No headphones. No SD card. Next it'll be some proprietary SIM card standard. It's almost like their afraid someone is going to crack iOS to run on and Android handset the way macOS can run on a PC
    - obtino 10y ago
      > No SD card. To be fair, the SD card has been abandoned by the Google Nexus line as well. It caused a lot more problems than solved. Now that storage is relatively cheap, more manufacturers are removing it.

zitterbewegung 10y ago

Anyone remember iAds ? They have tried to get into the ad business and failed. Since this is more limited in scope and you can figure out intent better maybe this will be more successful .

downandout 10y ago

This isn't general advertising. It's only on the App Store and is based on the keywords you enter into a search in the store. They rolled this out because it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed anymore on there. Apple haters will use any new product to criticize the company, but this seems fairly benign and fills a need among developers.

jest3r1 10y ago
Ahh yes, more fees for developers. > it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed They could improve the search algorithm to solve this. Perhaps redesign the app store UI to better accommodate new apps. Or they could stagnate for years and then solve the problem by charging developers more. I'm not a hater though.
- downandout 10y ago
  >Ahh yes, more fees for developers. Developers (including myself) are already paying these fees to Google, Facebook and Bing in the form of app install ads. We'll likely get more more bang for the buck directly on the App Store though, so IMO it's a win for developers.
  - jsonne 10y ago
    Your media mix will likely shift, but you'll still be paying Facebook, Google etc. as well. Btw take a look at Twitter if you aren't already. I've had good results there.
    - downandout 10y ago
      Thanks, I will. I had always heard that Twitter sucked for most stuff...glad to hear someone is having a good experience.
      - jsonne 10y ago
        Absolutely. Feel free to reach out if you want any in depth advice. (Email is in my profile.)

z3t4 10y ago

I had the same feeling about Microsoft and I'm currently moving away from that platform. Most users seem OK with being tracked and identified so I doubt they will lose business because of it. At least until the new third reich comes by and exterminate those they don't like.