6 ms·

Get back to us when A.I reaches that of a cockroach.

M_Grey 10y ago
That would actually be pretty frighteningly advanced. Cockroaches seem to understand a lot more about their environment than AI's do at the best of times, and they run a lot of different and diverse "programs".
- computerex 10y ago
  I think we can probably write a cockroach simulator that would pass a "cockroach turing test". Cockroaches aren't magic, it'd be simple heuristics to emulate something that'd pass as a cockroach to an average person. And with expert domain specific knowledge on cockroaches, we could probably build something sophisticated and very cockroach like. BTW, I'd like anyone to find me a cockroach that can beat Lee Sedol at Go.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    By the same token, show me the computer that beat Lee Sedol find food, avoid poison and predators, seek a mate, etc. We're not bad at creating highly specialized AI, we seem to suck at creating competent generalists.
    - noiv 10y ago
      I'd assert any cockroach beats Lee Sedol using these criteria.
  - bitmapbrother 10y ago
    Reproducing the intelligence of an insect is incredibly more difficult than following a list of rules for a board game. Like I said, the A.I we have today cannot even simulate the brain of a cockroach. In fact we don't even fully understand their brains, how they work and whether or not they even have consciousness. When we do figure it out perhaps we can start building real A.I systems, but until then programs beating humans at board games isn't real A.I - it's just a computer iterating over all of the possible moves and picking the best one.
    - gliptic 10y ago
      If you think that's how AlphaGo works, you should maybe take a closer look.
      - bitmapbrother 10y ago
        There's nothing intelligent about AlphaGo.
        sangnoir 10y ago
        > There's nothing intelligent about AlphaGo. Classic Shit HN Says material. Never change, HN. Never change.
        bitmapbrother 10y ago
        Perhaps you'd like to prove the intelligence exhibited by AlphaGo.
        sangnoir 10y ago
        Only after you have given me a definition of intelligence which is not "what humans do"
    - matt4077 10y ago
      That's just the same old phenomenon that as soon as AI does something outstanding, people redefine the meaning of intelligence to exclude it. I'd say that in many of these cases, people expect "true" intelligence to come with conscience. But when some AI passes any test for consciousness you can throw at it, I'm sure there'll be people saying "it's not consciousness, it's just (perfectly) simulation consciousness". Somehow I can see this ending in some sort of "AI rights" struggle in 40 years or so. (so to anyone from the rebellion reading this in 2058: please consider this early support of your cause. The sha256 of my name is ccf9342dc9f238ff10d97d4c4e86f3c2219d3ac1).
  - mountaineer22 10y ago
    * that'd pass as a cockroach to an average person* I think the roach Turing test would need to pass as a cockroach to another cockroach, not a human.

That would actually be pretty frighteningly advanced. Cockroaches seem to understand a lot more about their environment than AI's do at the best of times, and they run a lot of different and diverse "programs".

computerex 10y ago
I think we can probably write a cockroach simulator that would pass a "cockroach turing test". Cockroaches aren't magic, it'd be simple heuristics to emulate something that'd pass as a cockroach to an average person. And with expert domain specific knowledge on cockroaches, we could probably build something sophisticated and very cockroach like. BTW, I'd like anyone to find me a cockroach that can beat Lee Sedol at Go.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  By the same token, show me the computer that beat Lee Sedol find food, avoid poison and predators, seek a mate, etc. We're not bad at creating highly specialized AI, we seem to suck at creating competent generalists.
  - noiv 10y ago
    I'd assert any cockroach beats Lee Sedol using these criteria.
- bitmapbrother 10y ago
  Reproducing the intelligence of an insect is incredibly more difficult than following a list of rules for a board game. Like I said, the A.I we have today cannot even simulate the brain of a cockroach. In fact we don't even fully understand their brains, how they work and whether or not they even have consciousness. When we do figure it out perhaps we can start building real A.I systems, but until then programs beating humans at board games isn't real A.I - it's just a computer iterating over all of the possible moves and picking the best one.
  - gliptic 10y ago
    If you think that's how AlphaGo works, you should maybe take a closer look.
    - bitmapbrother 10y ago
      There's nothing intelligent about AlphaGo.
      - sangnoir 10y ago
        > There's nothing intelligent about AlphaGo. Classic Shit HN Says material. Never change, HN. Never change.
        bitmapbrother 10y ago
        Perhaps you'd like to prove the intelligence exhibited by AlphaGo.
        sangnoir 10y ago
        Only after you have given me a definition of intelligence which is not "what humans do"
  - matt4077 10y ago
    That's just the same old phenomenon that as soon as AI does something outstanding, people redefine the meaning of intelligence to exclude it. I'd say that in many of these cases, people expect "true" intelligence to come with conscience. But when some AI passes any test for consciousness you can throw at it, I'm sure there'll be people saying "it's not consciousness, it's just (perfectly) simulation consciousness". Somehow I can see this ending in some sort of "AI rights" struggle in 40 years or so. (so to anyone from the rebellion reading this in 2058: please consider this early support of your cause. The sha256 of my name is ccf9342dc9f238ff10d97d4c4e86f3c2219d3ac1).
- mountaineer22 10y ago
  * that'd pass as a cockroach to an average person* I think the roach Turing test would need to pass as a cockroach to another cockroach, not a human.