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Nothing is keeping women from going into tech right now. In fact, there are all sorts of incentives for them to go into tech and they're STILL not going. I thin

Nothing is keeping women from going into tech right now. In fact, there are all sorts of incentives for them to go into tech and they're STILL not going. I think it's time to accept the fact that men and women are psychologically different in some ways. That's not a good or bad thing, it's just reality.

DenisM 10y ago
Straight from the article: When I was in school in the 1980s, women got about 37 percent of computer science degrees and law degrees then. Law went up to 47 percent now. In medicine, we were at 28 percent in 1984. That’s gone up to 48 percent. Computer science went from 37 percent to 18 percent.
- advantark2 10y ago
  That is a good point. I've tried to think of a good argument against this, but I haven't been able to come up with one. It's an odd statistic, since the ratio of women to men in college has been going up & women have been encouraged to go into STEM fields for a while now.
  - erroneousfunk 10y ago
    > I've tried to think of a good argument against this, but I haven't been able to come up with one. Why are you spending so much time trying to think of an argument against it? Is it really so hard to consider that women are now leaving programming in droves (particularly in the few years after college), in no small part due to the overwhelming number of men who tell them, day in and day out, that they need to accept the fact that they're "psychologically different" and that's "just reality"? We encourage women to go into STEM fields and then make them feel like freaks a few years later when they actually try to make a career of it. Especially as they start doing more advanced work in the company, being promoted (and especially in specific IT fields), it becomes much easier to just throw their hands up and say "I'm so done with this shit. Peace." than to be BOTH a great programmer and a constant target/poster child of gender politics (both well-intentioned and otherwise). It's a positive feedback loop.
    - advantark2 10y ago
      I tried thinking of a good argument against it because it seems unintuitive. From everything I see, women are ENCOURAGED to go into STEM fields. They are significantly more likely to be hired and promoted when compared to their male counterparts, and get all sorts of support and scholarships. Are you suggesting there aren't any psychological differences between men and women? Because testosterone has been shown to cause people to be more competitive, assertive, and violent. That's a pretty good indicator of a difference in psychology. We are of course talking about trends here. There are of course individual exceptions to the norm.
untog 10y ago
> there are all sorts of incentives for them to go into tech and they're STILL not going You don't think it's worth at least looking at why that is? What does "psychologically different" mean? If we're saying they are genetically less disposed to enter tech as career then no, I doubt there's a lot we can do. But something tells me that isn't the case at all. What if they're "psychologically different" because our education system and culture drives them away from engineering-y, logical careers and into more personable, "soft" industries? Shouldn't we be able to take a second look at that culture and that education system? Note that this goes both ways. How many boys out there would make fantastic fashion designers, carers or teachers, but are dissuaded from those careers because they're not "masculine" enough?
- advantark2 10y ago
  So what if the differences in gender are because of educational and cultural reasons? There's always this assumption that all differences between genders are terrible, but I don't really see why this is the case. Honestly, the only reason I see this being done is so the labor pool for tech workers can go up(and thus pay would go down).
  - untog 10y ago
    Why would it not be the case? That people are forced into careers they don't actually want because of cultural pressure? And you're OK with this because it helps ensure you have a high salary?
    - advantark2 10y ago
      Forced? Women aren't forced to stay out of the tech industry right now.

DenisM 10y ago

Straight from the article: When I was in school in the 1980s, women got about 37 percent of computer science degrees and law degrees then. Law went up to 47 percent now. In medicine, we were at 28 percent in 1984. That’s gone up to 48 percent. Computer science went from 37 percent to 18 percent.

advantark2 10y ago
That is a good point. I've tried to think of a good argument against this, but I haven't been able to come up with one. It's an odd statistic, since the ratio of women to men in college has been going up & women have been encouraged to go into STEM fields for a while now.
- erroneousfunk 10y ago
  > I've tried to think of a good argument against this, but I haven't been able to come up with one. Why are you spending so much time trying to think of an argument against it? Is it really so hard to consider that women are now leaving programming in droves (particularly in the few years after college), in no small part due to the overwhelming number of men who tell them, day in and day out, that they need to accept the fact that they're "psychologically different" and that's "just reality"? We encourage women to go into STEM fields and then make them feel like freaks a few years later when they actually try to make a career of it. Especially as they start doing more advanced work in the company, being promoted (and especially in specific IT fields), it becomes much easier to just throw their hands up and say "I'm so done with this shit. Peace." than to be BOTH a great programmer and a constant target/poster child of gender politics (both well-intentioned and otherwise). It's a positive feedback loop.
  - advantark2 10y ago
    I tried thinking of a good argument against it because it seems unintuitive. From everything I see, women are ENCOURAGED to go into STEM fields. They are significantly more likely to be hired and promoted when compared to their male counterparts, and get all sorts of support and scholarships. Are you suggesting there aren't any psychological differences between men and women? Because testosterone has been shown to cause people to be more competitive, assertive, and violent. That's a pretty good indicator of a difference in psychology. We are of course talking about trends here. There are of course individual exceptions to the norm.

untog 10y ago

> there are all sorts of incentives for them to go into tech and they're STILL not going You don't think it's worth at least looking at why that is? What does "psychologically different" mean? If we're saying they are genetically less disposed to enter tech as career then no, I doubt there's a lot we can do. But something tells me that isn't the case at all. What if they're "psychologically different" because our education system and culture drives them away from engineering-y, logical careers and into more personable, "soft" industries? Shouldn't we be able to take a second look at that culture and that education system? Note that this goes both ways. How many boys out there would make fantastic fashion designers, carers or teachers, but are dissuaded from those careers because they're not "masculine" enough?

advantark2 10y ago
So what if the differences in gender are because of educational and cultural reasons? There's always this assumption that all differences between genders are terrible, but I don't really see why this is the case. Honestly, the only reason I see this being done is so the labor pool for tech workers can go up(and thus pay would go down).
- untog 10y ago
  Why would it not be the case? That people are forced into careers they don't actually want because of cultural pressure? And you're OK with this because it helps ensure you have a high salary?
  - advantark2 10y ago
    Forced? Women aren't forced to stay out of the tech industry right now.