6 ms·

If there is solid evidence and especially if there are multiple witnesses then this should be taken to court! Im not sure who the defendant should be on the R

by readhn 10y ago

If there is solid evidence and especially if there are multiple witnesses then this should be taken to court! Im not sure who the defendant should be on the Russian side, the ministry of defense?

okket 10y ago
> If there is solid evidence and especially if there are multiple witnesses then this should be taken to court! Which court?
- readhn 10y ago
  that's a question for lawyers out there. im sure there are precedents in our history. Track down who gave the order and sue them! Does not matter who it is - P. or his buddies. Otherwise what is the point of this "investigation"?
  - ahoka 10y ago
    There are precedents: they are called world wars.
    - readhn 10y ago
      haha sure. no one is going to world war III over this! I hope you realize this. What needs to happen is proper legal process and some heads need to roll at the Russian ministry of defense.
- ivan_gammel 10y ago
  National courts first, then European Court of Human Rights if they will not win in national courts. Based on this report relatives of victims can sue in ECHR all involved parties, including both Russian Federation (for providing military equipment to separatists) and Ukraine (for not closing air space for civil flights).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
tomjen3 10y ago
When countries do this it is either a war or nothing.
- readhn 10y ago
  im sure you are kidding. no one is going to war with Russia anytime soon! lol ..so it is likely to be a nothing.
  - chrischen 10y ago
    Even more sanctions
    - readhn 10y ago
      Sanctions are a dirty western political trick just so the politicians here can say "we did something". Sanctions are useless! Do you know who they affect? Regular people ONLY. Who have no say in politics anymore over there (elections are rigged). Facts: 1. Top Russian government officials transferred their assets to Europe / USA over the years. They have their families and kids living abroad and going to European/American universities. 2. They have assets offshore not affected by russian currency fluctuations. Most have dual citizenships. If you want to hit them hard: arrest their wealth offshore; kick out their families from usa/europe. Why is that not happening? Why are we still allowing illegal wealth transfer through use of offshores? Why is prime-minister of Russia allowed to own a $20mil apartment in London? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3182636/Vladimir-Putin-s-Deputy-Prime-Minister-owns-secret-12million-apartment-just-short-walk-Downing-Street.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3182636/Vladimir-Put... Whats sanctions? Against who? Its a big joke!
      - emp_zealoth 10y ago
        The point is to ruin Russia to the point they become North Korea and cannot afford the upkeep for it's military. Regular people? Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe if they get off their asses and stop the Putin's insanity...but who are we kidding? People there dream of good old soviet imperium
ivan_gammel 10y ago
It depends. One possible way is to request FSB to investigate based on presented evidence (illegal supplies of military equipment are their scope of responsibility and we do know that these supplies were not authorized in accordance to Russian laws). If they will not start investigation, then report to the Office of Russian Prosecutor's General. If prosecutors reject the case, go to local court and then up to the Supreme Court. If no success there, go to the European Court of Human Rights and sue Russian Federation. If Russia loses in ECHR, Ministry of Finances will be responsible for paying damages. If (very unlikely, but possible) FSB agrees to investigate and finds the responsible people, likely, it will also find that they were on duty when supplies of equipment took place and, thus, Ministry of Finances of Russian Federation will be responsible for paying damages.

by readhn 10y ago

If there is solid evidence and especially if there are multiple witnesses then this should be taken to court! Im not sure who the defendant should be on the Russian side, the ministry of defense?

okket 10y ago

> If there is solid evidence and especially if there are multiple witnesses then this should be taken to court! Which court?

readhn 10y ago
that's a question for lawyers out there. im sure there are precedents in our history. Track down who gave the order and sue them! Does not matter who it is - P. or his buddies. Otherwise what is the point of this "investigation"?
- ahoka 10y ago
  There are precedents: they are called world wars.
  - readhn 10y ago
    haha sure. no one is going to world war III over this! I hope you realize this. What needs to happen is proper legal process and some heads need to roll at the Russian ministry of defense.
ivan_gammel 10y ago
National courts first, then European Court of Human Rights if they will not win in national courts. Based on this report relatives of victims can sue in ECHR all involved parties, including both Russian Federation (for providing military equipment to separatists) and Ukraine (for not closing air space for civil flights).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

tomjen3 10y ago

When countries do this it is either a war or nothing.

readhn 10y ago
im sure you are kidding. no one is going to war with Russia anytime soon! lol ..so it is likely to be a nothing.
- chrischen 10y ago
  Even more sanctions
  - readhn 10y ago
    Sanctions are a dirty western political trick just so the politicians here can say "we did something". Sanctions are useless! Do you know who they affect? Regular people ONLY. Who have no say in politics anymore over there (elections are rigged). Facts: 1. Top Russian government officials transferred their assets to Europe / USA over the years. They have their families and kids living abroad and going to European/American universities. 2. They have assets offshore not affected by russian currency fluctuations. Most have dual citizenships. If you want to hit them hard: arrest their wealth offshore; kick out their families from usa/europe. Why is that not happening? Why are we still allowing illegal wealth transfer through use of offshores? Why is prime-minister of Russia allowed to own a $20mil apartment in London? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3182636/Vladimir-Putin-s-Deputy-Prime-Minister-owns-secret-12million-apartment-just-short-walk-Downing-Street.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3182636/Vladimir-Put... Whats sanctions? Against who? Its a big joke!
    - emp_zealoth 10y ago
      The point is to ruin Russia to the point they become North Korea and cannot afford the upkeep for it's military. Regular people? Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe if they get off their asses and stop the Putin's insanity...but who are we kidding? People there dream of good old soviet imperium

ivan_gammel 10y ago

It depends. One possible way is to request FSB to investigate based on presented evidence (illegal supplies of military equipment are their scope of responsibility and we do know that these supplies were not authorized in accordance to Russian laws). If they will not start investigation, then report to the Office of Russian Prosecutor's General. If prosecutors reject the case, go to local court and then up to the Supreme Court. If no success there, go to the European Court of Human Rights and sue Russian Federation. If Russia loses in ECHR, Ministry of Finances will be responsible for paying damages. If (very unlikely, but possible) FSB agrees to investigate and finds the responsible people, likely, it will also find that they were on duty when supplies of equipment took place and, thus, Ministry of Finances of Russian Federation will be responsible for paying damages.