10 ms·

> fewer than one in five CS degrees are earned by women Boys born today are 40% less likely to graduate than girls. I think this 'problem' will solve itself.

by jkot 10y ago

> fewer than one in five CS degrees are earned by women Boys born today are 40% less likely to graduate than girls. I think this 'problem' will solve itself. EDIT: I was not very clear. This is not success rate after joining college. Today 60% of all students are women and this fraction is rising. In 18 years men will be a small minority at university education.

throwaway2016a 10y ago
Anecdotally, I had five woman in my CS program out of 100 students (I know, pathetic)... but all five of them graduated. Can't say the same for the men. My wife was an Electromechanical engineer, in her program they had the same number of woman but a higher percentage because there were fewer students in the major in general. I think they all graduated although a couple of them had to retake some courses so they didn't finish on time. But my guess is it is a cultural thing not an aptitude thing. Woman have certain standards they need to live up to that aren't necessarily expected of men. Especially in male dominated majors where I have definitely observed the attitude where woman need work harder to prove they deserve to be there than men. Edit: summary: my hypothesis is men fail out due to apathy since they are told from birth that college is their right and expectation whereas woman have something to prove. As that changes I expect either the woman will become apathetic too or the men will step up their game. Either way, a system out of equilibrium seeks balance.
- jkot 10y ago
  > Woman have certain standards they need to live up to that aren't necessarily expected of men. Could you name some? I have opposite experience.
  - throwaway2016a 10y ago
    I can't quantify it. Sociology is not my field. However, it has been my experience that men are expected to have a fair amount of recklessness and irresponsibility that woman are not. Examples: - Men being with many woman during college is considered experimenting, whereas for woman it is considered slutty. - A man answers wrong on a question in class and people just move on. A blond woman does the same and she's a dumb blond. (I've seen this happen) - A man fails it's OK, failure happens and is a part of learning. A woman fails, and it's because maybe women aren't cut out for this. Again, not my field just going by conversation I've had with woman I know.
    - jkot 10y ago
      > Men being with many woman during college is considered experimenting Or it is considered a rape. General advice today is to treat college as a workplace and date girls outside, who are not students. > A blond woman does the same and she's a dumb blond. I seen many dumb men > A woman fails, and it's because maybe women aren't cut out for this. ...or maybe it is because of environment, conditioning.. When women fails we need to raise awareness, funds... When men fails it is natural, no help is needed.
      - throwaway2016a 10y ago
        For the record I don't agree with any of those things at all. Far from it. I married a feminist and it is hard not to be one myself :)
        jkot 10y ago
        I am feminist myself. It is about gender equality after all. Anyway, good luck ;-)
      - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
        > Or it is considered a rape. General advice today is to treat college as a workplace and date girls outside, who are not students. Does this advice lead to less women feeling that they've been raped, or does it just minimize the consequences for the person accused because the accuser is poorer and lacks institutional support (such that it is)?
bonniemuffin 10y ago
I suspect this is driven by women's culturally-conditioned lower belief in their own ability, as well as men's conditioning to believe they must go to college. The women who would fail have already self-selected themselves out of CS due to believing they won't be able to hack it. Therefore women who actually do start a CS program are likely to be the most driven ones with the greatest likelihood of success. Whereas men are conditioned to have more belief in their own ability and to see college as non-optional, so they're more likely to commit to a CS degree (or any college degree) without realizing they won't be successful at it.
- jkot 10y ago
  I think I will go with discrimination and sexism.
  - bonniemuffin 10y ago
    Yes, this is very much a result of gender bias and sexist conditioning for both men and women, which leads both of them to have inaccurate self-assessments of their abilities. Gender bias hurts both men and women.
    - jkot 10y ago
      And that's why today 60% of students are women (and raising). But it hurts women too, because they will not find husbands to marry.

by jkot 10y ago

throwaway2016a 10y ago

Anecdotally, I had five woman in my CS program out of 100 students (I know, pathetic)... but all five of them graduated. Can't say the same for the men. My wife was an Electromechanical engineer, in her program they had the same number of woman but a higher percentage because there were fewer students in the major in general. I think they all graduated although a couple of them had to retake some courses so they didn't finish on time. But my guess is it is a cultural thing not an aptitude thing. Woman have certain standards they need to live up to that aren't necessarily expected of men. Especially in male dominated majors where I have definitely observed the attitude where woman need work harder to prove they deserve to be there than men. Edit: summary: my hypothesis is men fail out due to apathy since they are told from birth that college is their right and expectation whereas woman have something to prove. As that changes I expect either the woman will become apathetic too or the men will step up their game. Either way, a system out of equilibrium seeks balance.

jkot 10y ago
> Woman have certain standards they need to live up to that aren't necessarily expected of men. Could you name some? I have opposite experience.
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  I can't quantify it. Sociology is not my field. However, it has been my experience that men are expected to have a fair amount of recklessness and irresponsibility that woman are not. Examples: - Men being with many woman during college is considered experimenting, whereas for woman it is considered slutty. - A man answers wrong on a question in class and people just move on. A blond woman does the same and she's a dumb blond. (I've seen this happen) - A man fails it's OK, failure happens and is a part of learning. A woman fails, and it's because maybe women aren't cut out for this. Again, not my field just going by conversation I've had with woman I know.
  - jkot 10y ago
    > Men being with many woman during college is considered experimenting Or it is considered a rape. General advice today is to treat college as a workplace and date girls outside, who are not students. > A blond woman does the same and she's a dumb blond. I seen many dumb men > A woman fails, and it's because maybe women aren't cut out for this. ...or maybe it is because of environment, conditioning.. When women fails we need to raise awareness, funds... When men fails it is natural, no help is needed.
    - throwaway2016a 10y ago
      For the record I don't agree with any of those things at all. Far from it. I married a feminist and it is hard not to be one myself :)
      - jkot 10y ago
        I am feminist myself. It is about gender equality after all. Anyway, good luck ;-)
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      > Or it is considered a rape. General advice today is to treat college as a workplace and date girls outside, who are not students. Does this advice lead to less women feeling that they've been raped, or does it just minimize the consequences for the person accused because the accuser is poorer and lacks institutional support (such that it is)?

bonniemuffin 10y ago

I suspect this is driven by women's culturally-conditioned lower belief in their own ability, as well as men's conditioning to believe they must go to college. The women who would fail have already self-selected themselves out of CS due to believing they won't be able to hack it. Therefore women who actually do start a CS program are likely to be the most driven ones with the greatest likelihood of success. Whereas men are conditioned to have more belief in their own ability and to see college as non-optional, so they're more likely to commit to a CS degree (or any college degree) without realizing they won't be successful at it.

jkot 10y ago
I think I will go with discrimination and sexism.
- bonniemuffin 10y ago
  Yes, this is very much a result of gender bias and sexist conditioning for both men and women, which leads both of them to have inaccurate self-assessments of their abilities. Gender bias hurts both men and women.
  - jkot 10y ago
    And that's why today 60% of students are women (and raising). But it hurts women too, because they will not find husbands to marry.