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I've been never more productive with my smartphones than with a Blackberry. The BB's keyboards are still unmatched. While I can type as fast with my iPhone 7 wh

I've been never more productive with my smartphones than with a Blackberry. The BB's keyboards are still unmatched. While I can type as fast with my iPhone 7 where cursor control is thanks to 3D touch great a BB Classic is still better—reasons why: - You can rest your fingers on the keyboard like on a real keyboard without pressing the keys (you can't do that on a touch screen) - After a short time you start to touch type; although it's possible with an iPhone too, it's not that convenient and most keep looking on their keyboards - Cursor control with the BB mini trackpad above the keyboard (Classic and other models), is just terrific and often needed - Best is that all good apps including the launcher support keyboard short-cuts and you will heavily use them since the keyboard is always present (Classic and other models) - To give you a comparison: using a BB with a keyboard feels like using Vim vs a GUI-based editor; you use Vim only with Vim's key binding fast and reliable, no need to open sliding menus, touch buttons, etc.; it's very satisfying and I really miss those times The path BB went the recent months—putting Android on BB devices + some extra security stuff (the so called DTEK)—was a good decision. But they brought the super expensive Priv device with a slider keyboard which is for a BB rather mediocre and not like the ones from the Classic, Bold, etc. Few weeks ago, they brought us a non keyboard Alcatel-OEM phone which does not differ from any other Android except this DTEK software which you can just download on any phone (why???). What they just need to do is to put Android on the Blackberry Classic or some phone with a similar form factor. That's it. Before they don't do this final step, they can't claim that hardware is not profitable. I don't get why the CEO didn't do this as the first thing when he started his Android strategy.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago
The BB's keyboards are still unmatched. Yeah, but does that really matter any more? I've found that my iPhone's speech-to-text is pretty darned good, as long as I speak with a slightly staccato cadence to make it clear where the word divisions are. I can do that much more quickly than I can type. Generally I only have problems when the connection to the server doing the conversion is poor. I've never used Android's speech-to-text, but I have to assume it is equivalent. Can an experienced BB typist really outperform speech-to-text conversion?
- whitecarpet 10y ago
  There is more than just creating text. The BB keyboard is also essential part of the UI, you trigger stuff through the keyboard all the time (think of VIM or terminal based apps). Even if just talk about text creation which involves editing. Speech-to-text is impressive but once you start to edit your text you need a keyboard and perfect cursor control.
  - Osiris 10y ago
    I really liked the clicking ball on the T-mobile G1. You used the ball to move the cursor and then could click it to select. It was useful for one-handed operation and fine text editing.
- AndrewDucker 10y ago
  I am not comfortable having my email conversations out loud, particularly when surrounded by other people in an office.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  How does it work with code though? I've never used either iPhone or Android stt, but I don't imagine them handling a shell very well
- wcummings 10y ago
  I feel like an idiot talking to an inanimate object, I never use text-to-speech. Besides, it's nice to be able to send a text on the bus without being That Text-to-Speech Guy that everyone hates.
- jandrese 10y ago
  My experience with iPhones speech to text is mixed. It does a good job with short common words if you talk slowly and enunciate, but screws up proper names constantly and struggles with some sentences. Worse, when it gets something wrong, it can be completely wrong. It doesn't help that editing is kind of a pain on iOS either, with annoying long touches and the still awkward text selection system.
bobajeff 10y ago
By any chance have you ever used any feature like Swype or Speech to Text? I see many older folks still use it like those 2-ways of yesteryear. Unsurprisingly they aren't too comfortable responding via text.
- Osiris 10y ago
  Android speech to text works phenomenally well in my experience. It's much faster than typing. However, in most circumstances it's socially awkward to use it.
  - bobajeff 10y ago
    Is it also socially awkward to use a gesture typing function like Swype? Because that's what many used before Speech to Text was so good and it's still faster than thumb typing.
maxsilver 10y ago
> I don't get why the CEO didn't do this as the first thing when he started his Android strategy. I don't think Chen understands device strategy, or cares much for it. Because every BB user has been asking for the exact same thing you just mentioned -- for years -- and they still haven't done it. It'll never beat Apple or Samsung in popularity. But if they just released a single solid high-end Android phone with a real BlackBerry keyboard every two years, that product line would quietly print free money forever. It's a niche product, but a fairly large niche.
- whitecarpet 10y ago
  > Because every BB user has been asking for the exact same thing you just mentioned -- for years -- and they still haven't done it. Yes, that's true and so sad. I would immediately pay $1,000 for a BB Classic running Android unseen.
  - mst 10y ago
    I quite possibly would as well, though you've now got me sulking about there never being a proper successor to my beloved N900.
    - zem 10y ago
      I would pay a lot for a good N900 successor with the same keyboard but a larger and more responsive touch screen.
- nathcd 10y ago
  Exactly. Since Termux[1][2] I've been pining for just this. Add a removable battery back in and I'd pay lots of money for this. The long rumored Blackberry Rome/Mercury seemed to be something like this [3] (minus the removable battery), and I think was expected in Q1 2017 or so. [1] https://termux.com/ https://termux.com/ [2] https://github.com/termux https://github.com/termux [3] http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-mercury-rome-renderings-show-slick-physical-keyboard-30446558/ http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-mercury-rome-renderings-...
- 10y ago
wcummings 10y ago
>What they just need to do is to put Android on the Blackberry Classic or some phone with a similar form factor. That's it. I would buy this so fast. There's slim pickins for android phones w/ keyboards.
- ultramancool 10y ago
  Are there any pickins for android phones with keyboards with even remotely modern hardware (I'd settle for anything with a 1080p screen probably)? Seems extremely limited, I was unable to find any viable options last I checked. I hate the candy bar form factor but it seems as though it really has won out unfortunately.
  - nathcd 10y ago
    Blackberry's own Priv from late last year is the only modern choice. Reviews generally indicate that it was good, but not great. Had minor issues with heating up and having a clicky back I think. Was mostly stock Android aside from a few small tweaks.
    - ultramancool 10y ago
      I looked at it but both price and lack of root and bootloader unlocking are extremely prohibitive for me. The keyboard is really its only appealing feature. I can get a device like a OnePlus 3 for about 60% of the price and it has better hardware to boot. In terms of storage, RAM and CPU it's more comparable to a OnePlus 2 which is about 40% of its price. Keyboard is nice, but not double the price and lose features I rely upon like AdAway and XPrivacy kind of nice.
      - nathcd 10y ago
        Agreed, those are among the reasons I haven't picked one up either. Not sure what price One Plus 3 is, but it's worth noting new Privs on Ebay generally fluctuate between 299 and 350 USD, which I'm guessing may be similar to OP3.
  - 10y ago
pwthornton 10y ago
You're defining productivity as pure typing speed. This is exactly why the iPhone killed Blackberry. All the Blackberry had was a hardware keyboard. Everything else about the platform and OS was vastly weaker. Apple and Google have real, full-fledged OSes (Blackberry eventually got this, but it was really a feature phone with QWERTY keyboard). I do all kinds of productivity and work tasks on my iPhone and the keyboard text input is a small part of that. Having a real Web browser is mission critical for the work that I do. When the iPhone first came out, that was the No. 1 reason I went with the iPhone over a Blackberry. The iPhone also has a very robust application ecosystem that is powered by the fact that all iPhones have come with large (by Blackberry standards) responsive touchscreens. I use project management software on my phone. I have note taking programs that sync with desktop. I can even SSH into a server and update html files. Apple put real computers in users' pockets. Blackberry just made texting and writing emails (not even full-fledged emails either!) easier to write. That's it.
- jonknee 10y ago
  > Apple put real computers in users' pockets. Blackberry just made texting and writing emails (not even full-fledged emails either!) easier to write. That's it. For some people email is all they're looking to do and that's why it feels so much more productive. Unfortunately for BlackBerry it's a pretty small niche.
  - bdavisx 10y ago
    I remember when the "new" Dodge trucks came out in the 1994. They were "ugly" according to most people, but Dodge/Chrysler found that 10% of the people loved them. That was enough to make a bunch of money. I think that a quality keyboard on a phone would be similar. The problem is that for some reason most companies think they have to be growing tremendously or it's not worth being in business. You can make really good money on a niche - but I guess it's not enough for the current BB executives. http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/the-21-greatest-trucks-of-all-time.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/the-21-greatest-...
    - 10y ago
ndesaulniers 10y ago
> After a short time you start to touch type; although it's possible with an iPhone too On my Android phone, I've even begun "touch swiping," using swipe gestures without looking while leaning heavily on the autocompleter.
- disordinary 10y ago
  And posting random giberish more often than not if you're like me.
nixos 10y ago
I don't think they're allowed to put Android on a BB classic form factor - the screen dimensions don't scale relative to regular phones, and as far as I know, Google demands certain layouts to simplify app development.
LeChuck 10y ago
Oh man. Something like the (now cancelled?) BlackBerry Vienna/Rome/Mercury. I'd buy that thing the day it comes out. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/135924-blackberry-vienna-mercury-what-s-the-story-so-far http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/135924-blackberry-vienna-mer...
witty_username 10y ago
Is the GUI editor analogy really apt? You can do most things with keyboard shortcuts in Kate and Eclipse.
- weerd 10y ago
  I see where he's coming from, but totally agree with you. I've worked with people who refuse to consider a GUI editor because emacs is what they learned in school and it can do everything, but they don't actually configure the damn thing. Then they are speechless when I refactor, find refs, regex replace: all at the keyboard. Yes, this is a Java based IDE... no, you don't have to click on enormous shiny buttons to do work. Also you don't need to understand lisp to configure it, wow! Rant over, sorry for derailing the thread. This is a touchy subject.
biktor_gj 10y ago
As far as keyboards are concerned, I've never had anything better than the Motorola Droid 4. It's a shame it was unusable with the stock software, the terrible display and the locked bootloader, but the keyboard was absolutely amazing. My fingers have always been too big for BB phones. About the exiting hardware business, I don't think it will be too long before BB finally crashes down and gets sold. The differentiator for them has been hardware since they ditched BBOS for Android (not saying it was a bad decission, that thing was horrible), now what's left is some java apps and some branding to put on some random ODM... Until a Microsoft, Lenovo etc gets in and buys them for their IP
- phonon 10y ago
  Totally agree. Droid 4 (and Psion 5) have awesome keyboards. My understanding is that there are several patents in this space that need to be licensed, coupled with everyone wants to copycat the best selling phones, and don't want to design a "niche" product that looks old fashioned. Google's Andy Rubin has a patent on one design! https://www.google.com/patents/US8488778 https://www.google.com/patents/US8488778 It's also difficult to design a slider with a large screen and not have the phone be unwieldy. http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-praise-qwerty-but-to-bury-it http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-pra... "And that's where you run into trouble with physical keyboards, according to Motorola's Rick Osterloh. Keyboards "make it so you have to cut the screen size down, or have a slider form factor which adds a considerable amount of cost, thickness, and weight to the product."
- sangnoir 10y ago
  > About the exiting hardware business, I don't think it will be too long before BB finally crashes down and gets sold That thought ought to scare current OEMs: I'm sure BB will "pivot" into IP Licensing thereafter. Then again they don't need to be sold before they start doing that
valine 10y ago
A couple months ago I took the letters off the keys on my iPhone (my keyboard looks like a grid of white squares, jailbreak required). I can confirm touch typing on a touch screen is definitely possible and actually very convenient. I don't even miss the lettering anymore. Besides the fact that blank keys just look cool, I've seen a notable increase in my typing speed.
on_and_off 10y ago
Even though I would have really liked to see blackberry have a real try at this, It looks like this is just too small of a niche anyway : http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-praise-qwerty-but-to-bury-it http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-pra...
tn13 10y ago
Yes. As far as productivity is concerned Android or iPhone did not match my blackberry. I remember typing out entire class assignments on my phone during train journeys and sending hundreds of BBM messages every day. I barely do it with iPhone. There are simply too many distractions. I think Blackberry is a bit like Yahoo! where they focused too much on sales and marketing and did not invest well in engineering and product design. When even Gingerbread Android could detect dates in emails and let me create Calendar events based on that Blackberry could not do such a simple thing.
zekevermillion 10y ago
Yes! I own a BB classic and it's the best. The problem is BB has larger ambitions, and can't just reconcile itself to serving the relatively small market of power users. They want to be everywhere. They could charge a premium for Classic and just occupy that niche, but no, they have to throw it all away. I'm just hoping that whoever designed Classic is going to get frustrated and go do some open source hardware. Now that would be a silver lining.
Retric 10y ago
There are many cheap Android phones with keyboards EX: Samsung Stratosphere SCH-i405 for 35$. Yes, BB may have had better keyboards, but I don't think it's really that huge of a market.
PerfectElement 10y ago
I own a Priv and this news makes me sad. The Priv is not perfect, but it's the only phone that allows me to run my company for most part of the day without a laptop.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago

The BB's keyboards are still unmatched. Yeah, but does that really matter any more? I've found that my iPhone's speech-to-text is pretty darned good, as long as I speak with a slightly staccato cadence to make it clear where the word divisions are. I can do that much more quickly than I can type. Generally I only have problems when the connection to the server doing the conversion is poor. I've never used Android's speech-to-text, but I have to assume it is equivalent. Can an experienced BB typist really outperform speech-to-text conversion?

whitecarpet 10y ago
There is more than just creating text. The BB keyboard is also essential part of the UI, you trigger stuff through the keyboard all the time (think of VIM or terminal based apps). Even if just talk about text creation which involves editing. Speech-to-text is impressive but once you start to edit your text you need a keyboard and perfect cursor control.
- Osiris 10y ago
  I really liked the clicking ball on the T-mobile G1. You used the ball to move the cursor and then could click it to select. It was useful for one-handed operation and fine text editing.
AndrewDucker 10y ago
I am not comfortable having my email conversations out loud, particularly when surrounded by other people in an office.
CaptSpify 10y ago
How does it work with code though? I've never used either iPhone or Android stt, but I don't imagine them handling a shell very well
wcummings 10y ago
I feel like an idiot talking to an inanimate object, I never use text-to-speech. Besides, it's nice to be able to send a text on the bus without being That Text-to-Speech Guy that everyone hates.
jandrese 10y ago
My experience with iPhones speech to text is mixed. It does a good job with short common words if you talk slowly and enunciate, but screws up proper names constantly and struggles with some sentences. Worse, when it gets something wrong, it can be completely wrong. It doesn't help that editing is kind of a pain on iOS either, with annoying long touches and the still awkward text selection system.

bobajeff 10y ago

By any chance have you ever used any feature like Swype or Speech to Text? I see many older folks still use it like those 2-ways of yesteryear. Unsurprisingly they aren't too comfortable responding via text.

Osiris 10y ago
Android speech to text works phenomenally well in my experience. It's much faster than typing. However, in most circumstances it's socially awkward to use it.
- bobajeff 10y ago
  Is it also socially awkward to use a gesture typing function like Swype? Because that's what many used before Speech to Text was so good and it's still faster than thumb typing.

maxsilver 10y ago

> I don't get why the CEO didn't do this as the first thing when he started his Android strategy. I don't think Chen understands device strategy, or cares much for it. Because every BB user has been asking for the exact same thing you just mentioned -- for years -- and they still haven't done it. It'll never beat Apple or Samsung in popularity. But if they just released a single solid high-end Android phone with a real BlackBerry keyboard every two years, that product line would quietly print free money forever. It's a niche product, but a fairly large niche.

whitecarpet 10y ago
> Because every BB user has been asking for the exact same thing you just mentioned -- for years -- and they still haven't done it. Yes, that's true and so sad. I would immediately pay $1,000 for a BB Classic running Android unseen.
- mst 10y ago
  I quite possibly would as well, though you've now got me sulking about there never being a proper successor to my beloved N900.
  - zem 10y ago
    I would pay a lot for a good N900 successor with the same keyboard but a larger and more responsive touch screen.
nathcd 10y ago
Exactly. Since Termux[1][2] I've been pining for just this. Add a removable battery back in and I'd pay lots of money for this. The long rumored Blackberry Rome/Mercury seemed to be something like this [3] (minus the removable battery), and I think was expected in Q1 2017 or so. [1] https://termux.com/ https://termux.com/ [2] https://github.com/termux https://github.com/termux [3] http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-mercury-rome-renderings-show-slick-physical-keyboard-30446558/ http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-mercury-rome-renderings-...
10y ago

wcummings 10y ago

>What they just need to do is to put Android on the Blackberry Classic or some phone with a similar form factor. That's it. I would buy this so fast. There's slim pickins for android phones w/ keyboards.

ultramancool 10y ago
Are there any pickins for android phones with keyboards with even remotely modern hardware (I'd settle for anything with a 1080p screen probably)? Seems extremely limited, I was unable to find any viable options last I checked. I hate the candy bar form factor but it seems as though it really has won out unfortunately.
- nathcd 10y ago
  Blackberry's own Priv from late last year is the only modern choice. Reviews generally indicate that it was good, but not great. Had minor issues with heating up and having a clicky back I think. Was mostly stock Android aside from a few small tweaks.
  - ultramancool 10y ago
    I looked at it but both price and lack of root and bootloader unlocking are extremely prohibitive for me. The keyboard is really its only appealing feature. I can get a device like a OnePlus 3 for about 60% of the price and it has better hardware to boot. In terms of storage, RAM and CPU it's more comparable to a OnePlus 2 which is about 40% of its price. Keyboard is nice, but not double the price and lose features I rely upon like AdAway and XPrivacy kind of nice.
    - nathcd 10y ago
      Agreed, those are among the reasons I haven't picked one up either. Not sure what price One Plus 3 is, but it's worth noting new Privs on Ebay generally fluctuate between 299 and 350 USD, which I'm guessing may be similar to OP3.
- 10y ago

pwthornton 10y ago

You're defining productivity as pure typing speed. This is exactly why the iPhone killed Blackberry. All the Blackberry had was a hardware keyboard. Everything else about the platform and OS was vastly weaker. Apple and Google have real, full-fledged OSes (Blackberry eventually got this, but it was really a feature phone with QWERTY keyboard). I do all kinds of productivity and work tasks on my iPhone and the keyboard text input is a small part of that. Having a real Web browser is mission critical for the work that I do. When the iPhone first came out, that was the No. 1 reason I went with the iPhone over a Blackberry. The iPhone also has a very robust application ecosystem that is powered by the fact that all iPhones have come with large (by Blackberry standards) responsive touchscreens. I use project management software on my phone. I have note taking programs that sync with desktop. I can even SSH into a server and update html files. Apple put real computers in users' pockets. Blackberry just made texting and writing emails (not even full-fledged emails either!) easier to write. That's it.

jonknee 10y ago
> Apple put real computers in users' pockets. Blackberry just made texting and writing emails (not even full-fledged emails either!) easier to write. That's it. For some people email is all they're looking to do and that's why it feels so much more productive. Unfortunately for BlackBerry it's a pretty small niche.
- bdavisx 10y ago
  I remember when the "new" Dodge trucks came out in the 1994. They were "ugly" according to most people, but Dodge/Chrysler found that 10% of the people loved them. That was enough to make a bunch of money. I think that a quality keyboard on a phone would be similar. The problem is that for some reason most companies think they have to be growing tremendously or it's not worth being in business. You can make really good money on a niche - but I guess it's not enough for the current BB executives. http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/the-21-greatest-trucks-of-all-time.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/the-21-greatest-...
  - 10y ago

ndesaulniers 10y ago

> After a short time you start to touch type; although it's possible with an iPhone too On my Android phone, I've even begun "touch swiping," using swipe gestures without looking while leaning heavily on the autocompleter.

disordinary 10y ago
And posting random giberish more often than not if you're like me.

nixos 10y ago

I don't think they're allowed to put Android on a BB classic form factor - the screen dimensions don't scale relative to regular phones, and as far as I know, Google demands certain layouts to simplify app development.

LeChuck 10y ago

Oh man. Something like the (now cancelled?) BlackBerry Vienna/Rome/Mercury. I'd buy that thing the day it comes out. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/135924-blackberry-vienna-mercury-what-s-the-story-so-far http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/135924-blackberry-vienna-mer...

witty_username 10y ago

Is the GUI editor analogy really apt? You can do most things with keyboard shortcuts in Kate and Eclipse.

weerd 10y ago
I see where he's coming from, but totally agree with you. I've worked with people who refuse to consider a GUI editor because emacs is what they learned in school and it can do everything, but they don't actually configure the damn thing. Then they are speechless when I refactor, find refs, regex replace: all at the keyboard. Yes, this is a Java based IDE... no, you don't have to click on enormous shiny buttons to do work. Also you don't need to understand lisp to configure it, wow! Rant over, sorry for derailing the thread. This is a touchy subject.

biktor_gj 10y ago

As far as keyboards are concerned, I've never had anything better than the Motorola Droid 4. It's a shame it was unusable with the stock software, the terrible display and the locked bootloader, but the keyboard was absolutely amazing. My fingers have always been too big for BB phones. About the exiting hardware business, I don't think it will be too long before BB finally crashes down and gets sold. The differentiator for them has been hardware since they ditched BBOS for Android (not saying it was a bad decission, that thing was horrible), now what's left is some java apps and some branding to put on some random ODM... Until a Microsoft, Lenovo etc gets in and buys them for their IP

phonon 10y ago
Totally agree. Droid 4 (and Psion 5) have awesome keyboards. My understanding is that there are several patents in this space that need to be licensed, coupled with everyone wants to copycat the best selling phones, and don't want to design a "niche" product that looks old fashioned. Google's Andy Rubin has a patent on one design! https://www.google.com/patents/US8488778 https://www.google.com/patents/US8488778 It's also difficult to design a slider with a large screen and not have the phone be unwieldy. http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-praise-qwerty-but-to-bury-it http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-pra... "And that's where you run into trouble with physical keyboards, according to Motorola's Rick Osterloh. Keyboards "make it so you have to cut the screen size down, or have a slider form factor which adds a considerable amount of cost, thickness, and weight to the product."
sangnoir 10y ago
> About the exiting hardware business, I don't think it will be too long before BB finally crashes down and gets sold That thought ought to scare current OEMs: I'm sure BB will "pivot" into IP Licensing thereafter. Then again they don't need to be sold before they start doing that

valine 10y ago

A couple months ago I took the letters off the keys on my iPhone (my keyboard looks like a grid of white squares, jailbreak required). I can confirm touch typing on a touch screen is definitely possible and actually very convenient. I don't even miss the lettering anymore. Besides the fact that blank keys just look cool, I've seen a notable increase in my typing speed.

on_and_off 10y ago

Even though I would have really liked to see blackberry have a real try at this, It looks like this is just too small of a niche anyway : http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-praise-qwerty-but-to-bury-it http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/15/5104704/i-come-not-to-pra...

tn13 10y ago

Yes. As far as productivity is concerned Android or iPhone did not match my blackberry. I remember typing out entire class assignments on my phone during train journeys and sending hundreds of BBM messages every day. I barely do it with iPhone. There are simply too many distractions. I think Blackberry is a bit like Yahoo! where they focused too much on sales and marketing and did not invest well in engineering and product design. When even Gingerbread Android could detect dates in emails and let me create Calendar events based on that Blackberry could not do such a simple thing.

zekevermillion 10y ago

Yes! I own a BB classic and it's the best. The problem is BB has larger ambitions, and can't just reconcile itself to serving the relatively small market of power users. They want to be everywhere. They could charge a premium for Classic and just occupy that niche, but no, they have to throw it all away. I'm just hoping that whoever designed Classic is going to get frustrated and go do some open source hardware. Now that would be a silver lining.

Retric 10y ago

There are many cheap Android phones with keyboards EX: Samsung Stratosphere SCH-i405 for 35$. Yes, BB may have had better keyboards, but I don't think it's really that huge of a market.

PerfectElement 10y ago

I own a Priv and this news makes me sad. The Priv is not perfect, but it's the only phone that allows me to run my company for most part of the day without a laptop.