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The Simpsons by the Data
- nattaylor 10y agoI was just shy of 4 when "Bart Get's an F" aired and I'm a little jealous of all the folks who were the right age to experience that Simpsons era as the episodes aired. It's still fun to go back and watch them, but I remember seeing adults in stitches with laughter as they told Simpsons jokes.
- larrik 10y agoI also think that humor doesn't age well, it's largely generational. The Simpsons is better than most humor, because their jokes are generally stronger. They rarely go for the obvious joke (throw away the first 2-3 jokes you come up with, because they are too easy), and there is basically no sarcasm on the show (ever notice how all sitcoms are just sarcastic barbs for 22 minutes, and have been for decades?). That said, it can be hard to appreciate just how excellent it was for its time, since it changed the way a lot of series to follow write their humor.
- yolesaber 10y ago>and there is basically no sarcasm on the show My sarcasm detector is exploding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNGXoHQ0mps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNGXoHQ0mps
- acomjean 10y agoA sarcasm detector.. That's useful. (An actual invention on the show) https://frinkiac.com/caption/S10E22/1040572 https://frinkiac.com/caption/S10E22/1040572
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- nerfhammer 10y agoThe trick IMO is to have high density of lots of different kinds of jokes.
- freehunter 10y agoWhich is interesting because what originally turned me off Futurama when it first aired (and I was the right age to watch it at that time) was that it seemed like they went for the easy jokes a little too quickly, and not only that, they shoved them in your face by referencing the fact that they made a joke right then and there. It took a few viewings before I understood there were also jokes at a deeper level, but at first blush it's the anti-Simpsons.
- jesuslop 10y agoYep I'm indeedly the right age and the show broke the humor barrier to get a pop culture mind framework that provided quotes forever while chatting with friends.
- petercooper 10y agoI was about 8-9, but now I can appreciate watching the old episodes again because while I found them funny as a kid, there are so many more "adult" jokes I now notice as an adult that make me laugh at how naive I was as a kid :-D
- some-guy 10y agoThis is the beauty of the show...I would watch the shows over and over again on tape as a child without getting 80% of the jokes. Now I watch the old ones with my fiancé and I laugh louder and more frequently in my late 20s.
- Agathos 10y agoIt's also rough if you're a time traveler from the early eighties, hanging out with other time travelers. "Near as I can tell, all of popular culture and most of the English language gets taken over sometime in the early nineties by something called The Simpsons. I know this because nobody from that time or later seems to be able to put a sentence together without quoting them, then everybody giggles like idiots, and if I ask them to explain, all anybody ever does is laugh and ask me a condescending question about Bananarama!" -- Scott Meyer, Off to Be the Wizard
- dhimes 10y agoIndeed. Their presence on the Tracy Ullman show was a main draw to the show for some people.
- brianzelip 10y ago"Oh go home! Go home!"
- freshyill 10y agoI was Bart's age when the show started. I'll be Homer's age in two years. I had seen some of the shorts on the Tracey Ullman Show and the Butterfinger ads. I knew enough to make sure to watch "Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire" when it first aired. It really was perfect timing.
- acqq 10y agoNever thought about this, good that it's completely provable: "If we look at the supporting cast, the 14 most prominent characters are all male before we get to the first woman, Mrs. Krabappel, and only 5 of the top 50 supporting cast members are women. Women account for 25% of the dialogue on The Simpsons, including Marge and Lisa, two of the show’s main characters. If we remove the Simpson nuclear family, things look even more lopsided: women account for less than 10% of the supporting cast’s dialogue. A look at the show’s list of writers reveals that 9 of the top 10 writers are male."
- nattaylor 10y agoNever thought about that either, but definitely seems like a sign of the times. The writers grew up in the 80s(?) and were writing in the 90s. Many of those occupations (CEO, bartender, principal, clown, police chief, news anchor, etc) were predominantly male. [citation needed] Edit: Not so sure about my conclusions, as it seems that women made up about ~40% of the US Labor Force by 1990 [0] That article doesn't go into women's roles/titles though. [0] - http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2009/10/01/the-harried-life-of-the-working-mother/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2009/10/01/the-harried-life-o...
- namewithhe1d 10y agoHow about taking a look at the voice talent to understand why the characters are largely male dominated? Dan Castellaneta, Hank Azaria and Harry Shearer account for the largest majority of characters on the show. They have incredible flexibility and range. Nancy Cartwright voices Bart (not accounted for in the male/female numbers) and several other male characters, and thus expands the male repertoire. Yeardley Smith (Lisa) and Julie Kavner (Marge) have pretty distinct voices, and while incredibly talented, don't contribute many more characters to the show outside of "soundalikes" like Marge's sisters, etc.
- eanzenberg 10y agoThough there was more male dialogue than female on the show, the men were constantly portrayed as stupid, weak, aggressive, drunk, selfish, not responsible...
- pixelbath 10y agoI believe this cuts right to the heart of the matter; Simpsons is a humorous show, and stupid characters who say stupid things are humorous.
- Frondo 10y agoAnd the women were also weak, whiny, indifferent or overzealous-- Everyone is flawed on that show, even ol' Painty Can Ned.
- mikeash 10y agoThere are some flattering male characters, too. Smithers is loyal, smart, ultra-competent, and his only real (albeit gigantic) flaw is being utterly blinded by love. Doctor Hibbert finds humor in unfortunate situations and is sometimes a bit of a mercenary, but he's highly competent and generally kind. Apu is a successful and extremely hard-working businessman whose catchphrase involves being polite to his customers, although he also tends to screw them over. Most of the male (and female) characters are ridiculous, because the show is fundamentally about ridiculous people. But that's not the only kind of character they have.
- asgardiator 10y agoSmithers is literally the archetypal sycophant.
- mikeash 10y agoI don't think that's true. A sycophant is motivated by the desire for advancement, and is typically insincere. Smithers is sincere and motivated by love, which makes him much more interesting.
- dmlorenzetti 10y agoRegarding gender imbalance, it's also true that the women on the Simpsons usually represent the voice of reason, leaving it to the men to bring the idiocy. Presumably giving women more air time on the show would require them to create dumber women characters. So it's possible that the imbalance in "words spoken" can be partly laid down to a conscious decision that "it's just funnier that way."
- Frondo 10y agoThere's no reason why you couldn't have a male and female character acting out some zany scheme together, with the voice of reason provided by another male or female character. Picking genders to be "the good ones" or "the bad ones" is lazy writing, no matter which side it ends up flattering.
- freehunter 10y agoOn the other hand, it was hilarious when Lisa was down because all the Simpsons were idiots and then it turned out that all the Simpson men were idiots but the women were quite successful. Very unexpected, which leads to great humor.
- Vaskivo 10y agoThis is actually true for most comedy shows. Like you said, men do idiot stuff and women pull them back on track / are the voice of reason. I believe this comes from two reasons: - We are more inclined to believe men try and do dumb stuff. And we're more receptive, culturally, to men having "bad traits". - TV's main demographic is women. Therefore, the "relatable character" ends up being a woman. [EDIT] Why is the parent being downvoted? The imbalance may be bad, and the first step in fighting it is to understand why it happens.
- MollyR 10y agoIn one of my college marketing classes, I've heard something similar as the reasoning for commercials as well.
- nolostpuppy 10y agoThe Simpsons are just stupid.
- dang 10y agoPlease don't post unsubstantive comments here. We detached this one from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12599045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12599045 and marked it off-topic.
- agmcleod 10y agoI'd argue bart was more the main character in the first few seasons. Even though dialogue count doesnt support it. There were a number of key episodes about him. Though others existed around the other simpsons too. Like homer becoming the safety inspector, lisa meeting bleeding gums murphy.
- fullshark 10y agoHe was the focus of the marketing for sure. I remember Bart Simpson t shirts everywhere, video games starring Bart Simpson. "Do the Bartman" etc.
- antonyrn 10y agoIt blows my mind that even The Simpsons has become a target of gender bias accusations. The Simpsons is probably one of the tamest, least hostile television shows I can imagine at this point. Comparing The Simpsons to the rest of TV, without bringing the broader premium cable, internet and subscriber systems into the mix, The Simpsons displays fairly mild jabs at so many tropes, and usually does so in ways that are at least a little more interesting than the rest of TV. Beyond all of this, Matt Groening is fairly progressive in his humor. And even though, he's long since had much direct influence on the content of the show, his initial creativity still brought forward more unique themes in the 90's than what was previously common at that time. So many topics found a voice in The Simpsons' animation than ever before, and previously simply had no voice at all. At this point, I'm pretty fatigued at this endless death march of character assassination wherever character may be found. People who constantly look for a fight in anything at this point instantly lose my respect.
- acqq 10y agoWhere do you read "character assassination"? I see only statistics, totally provable. And citing it (in my other post) doesn't mean that I consider that some specific series "must" be male or female dominated, it's just an interesting tidbit. Its meaning would be even clearer if the similar statistics would be made on other works too. I personally see it as an explanation as why I more responded to the Simpsons than my girlfriends, who were less interested. At least I remember more stories where Lisa turned out to be much smarter than anybody else there, so that statistics is not everything, but it's interesting nevertheless.
- antonyrn 10y agoThere are so many charged buzzwords in the article in which anyone who can read between the lines would detect as a nod toward negative opinions.
- acqq 10y ago> There are so many charged buzzwords Such as? Can you please share your observations, for us other readers to see if we can agree that they actually exist, and if they do, if they are actually as "charged" as you seem to experience them?
- smegel 10y agoCulturally we don't laugh at women in the way we laugh at male buffoons. It's exactly the same reason there are far fewer female comedians.
- sandworm101 10y agoThis study assumes that Simpsons characters are manufactured purely for the use of the show. It ignores the possibility that the characters are created for the cast, not the audience. Every TV show is a creation of a team. That team has certain members. You have to use these people. Absent special circumstances, such as one actor wanting to play at being a director or do a solo piece (Alan Alda, MASH) the work has to be balanced across the cast. Sometimes this is even dictated by contract. Recent seasons of TheBigBangTheory seem to follow contract math regarding screen time. Many episodes seem to alternate between male and female groupings. Friends did this, but TBBT seems more mathematical. One could probably reverse-engineer everyone's contracts from screen time alone. So perhaps TheSimpsons' gender bias is based on the writers creating characters for the voice actors they have available, a cast setup long ago. Maybe they even are writing characters specifically for voices created by that cast. That would also create a gender bias.
- tzs 10y agoIf Homer was the smarter, calmer, saner parent most of the time and Marge was the dumber, short-tempered, crazy parent most of the time, The Simpsons would get slammed for attacking women. Same if Bart was the smart, obedient, respectful child and Lisa that less smart, rebellious child. Similar if Lenny and Carl's roles were reversed. The Simpsons would be slammed for making the black guy the dumber one. It's simply safer to make it so white (well, yellow in The Simpsons universe...) males are the ones who are dumb, impulsive, try out hare-brained schemes, and so on, and since it is out of those things that most of the comedy arises, those characters are going to get the most words.
- sdml 10y agoDo you have any evidence for this or is it pure speculation? One counter-example I can think of is Modern Family, which was a less smart, rebellious child who is female -- the Haley character -- and has not to my knowledge received any criticism for "attacking women".
- akiselev 10y agoModern Family though also has Hailey's sister who is smarter than the lot of them and a much younger wife married to the patriarch without falling into a gold-digger/mail-order bride stereotype. Other than Haily and stereotyped mom(s) they're OK on the whole.
- sdml 10y agoI wouldn't say "other than Haily". Even with that character in mind, I don't consider the show to be sexist. My point is that having a flawed female character doesn't imply that the show will be perceived as "attacking women" as tzs seems to be suggesting.
- exadeci 10y agoLuke is dumb too maybe even more than Haley and she is not smart but she's not stupid either she got lots of social skills.
- 10y ago
- justinhj 10y agoLisa was an inspiring character. We all laughed at Homer and Bart but we wanted to be Lisa, with her diligence and smarts and musical ability. I think that counts for more than how many words she said.
- system16 10y agoMaybe for you, but growing up my friends and I all wanted to be cool and rebellious Bart. I found Lisa to be one of the most dull characters in the series, and most episodes that focus on her to be on the boring side.
- jorgecastillo 10y ago>a pattern of patriarchy Americans and their political correctness, 'nuff said.