5 ms·

The other channel: read the source code yourself before compiling. This actually possible with most suckless projects since they are just a couple of hundred l

by qplex 10y ago

The other channel: read the source code yourself before compiling. This actually possible with most suckless projects since they are just a couple of hundred lines of C...

dTal 10y ago
Are you familiar with the Underhanded C Contest? It's possible to maliciously tamper with C code such that you definitely wouldn't spot it with a cursory glance over, and possibly even with careful study.
- geocar 10y ago
  Counterpoint: most underhanded C successes look like incompetence instead of malice, but still look "wrong"
  - creshal 10y ago
    …to someone who spends a lot of time writing C code.
kbenson 10y ago
Ignoring the fact that this implies you have to be a programmer that knows how to read C to verify the integrity of the downloads, and that the lines of code in C often correlates directly to complexity of the solution being expressed, this also assumes that an attack vector would be something obvious upon reading the code, and not hidden as a subtle bug which is hard to spot.
- Spivak 10y ago
  > Ignoring the fact that this implies you have to be a programmer that knows how to read C to verify the integrity of the downloads Don't ignore it, that's the practically the point. This is the perfect example of "don't trust me, trust the code". From http://dwm.suckless.org/ http://dwm.suckless.org/ > Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it’s pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    > This is the perfect example of "don't trust me, trust the code". But it's not that. It's "don't trust me, trust the code as long as you're part of the select group of people that can read and understand the code given the language we use, which by the way happens to be well known to be hard to vet for subtle logic errors, which because of the nature of the language often result in segfaults (at best), or remote code execution (at worst)." Why not write it in brainfuck? They'll only change their audience by a minuscule amount compared to the original audience they could have appealed to, and they will be even more "small and elitist". I originally translated "This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions." as "We're a tight knit group of assholes, and if you didn't take the same path in life we did there's no point in talking to you." It may be unfair to assume that's their intention, but I think it is fair to say that's what they are doing in practice.
startling 10y ago
The stali source includes, among other things: * a full checkout of libressl: http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/libressl http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/libressl * a full checkout of expat: http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/expat http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/expat * two full /bins: http://git.sta.li/rootfs-x86_64/tree/bin http://git.sta.li/rootfs-x86_64/tree/bin http://git.sta.li/rootfs-pi/tree/bin http://git.sta.li/rootfs-pi/tree/bin
- qplex 10y ago
  Emphasis on "most suckless projects". The point was that you can verify the integrity by reading the source code. The actual limits to this depend on many things.

by qplex 10y ago

The other channel: read the source code yourself before compiling. This actually possible with most suckless projects since they are just a couple of hundred lines of C...

dTal 10y ago

Are you familiar with the Underhanded C Contest? It's possible to maliciously tamper with C code such that you definitely wouldn't spot it with a cursory glance over, and possibly even with careful study.

geocar 10y ago
Counterpoint: most underhanded C successes look like incompetence instead of malice, but still look "wrong"
- creshal 10y ago
  …to someone who spends a lot of time writing C code.

kbenson 10y ago

Ignoring the fact that this implies you have to be a programmer that knows how to read C to verify the integrity of the downloads, and that the lines of code in C often correlates directly to complexity of the solution being expressed, this also assumes that an attack vector would be something obvious upon reading the code, and not hidden as a subtle bug which is hard to spot.

Spivak 10y ago
> Ignoring the fact that this implies you have to be a programmer that knows how to read C to verify the integrity of the downloads Don't ignore it, that's the practically the point. This is the perfect example of "don't trust me, trust the code". From http://dwm.suckless.org/ http://dwm.suckless.org/ > Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it’s pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions.
- kbenson 10y ago
  > This is the perfect example of "don't trust me, trust the code". But it's not that. It's "don't trust me, trust the code as long as you're part of the select group of people that can read and understand the code given the language we use, which by the way happens to be well known to be hard to vet for subtle logic errors, which because of the nature of the language often result in segfaults (at best), or remote code execution (at worst)." Why not write it in brainfuck? They'll only change their audience by a minuscule amount compared to the original audience they could have appealed to, and they will be even more "small and elitist". I originally translated "This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions." as "We're a tight knit group of assholes, and if you didn't take the same path in life we did there's no point in talking to you." It may be unfair to assume that's their intention, but I think it is fair to say that's what they are doing in practice.

startling 10y ago

The stali source includes, among other things: * a full checkout of libressl: http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/libressl http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/libressl * a full checkout of expat: http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/expat http://git.sta.li/src/tree/lib/expat * two full /bins: http://git.sta.li/rootfs-x86_64/tree/bin http://git.sta.li/rootfs-x86_64/tree/bin http://git.sta.li/rootfs-pi/tree/bin http://git.sta.li/rootfs-pi/tree/bin

qplex 10y ago
Emphasis on "most suckless projects". The point was that you can verify the integrity by reading the source code. The actual limits to this depend on many things.