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Agree, I wrote a medium article about exactly this phenomenon partly inspired by you: https://medium.com/@Jernfrost/the-crab-people-and-space-exploration-24e270

Agree, I wrote a medium article about exactly this phenomenon partly inspired by you: https://medium.com/@Jernfrost/the-crab-people-and-space-exploration-24e27065f57f#.ulqkyp4zp https://medium.com/@Jernfrost/the-crab-people-and-space-expl... I've been annoyed by this attitude for quite some time now. You see it all the time. Same deal with Tesla an Model S. Because not everybody can afford it, and because not all power is renewable an electric car like Tesla Model S seems like some sort of terrible crime. Whatever people level against Elon Musk he seems to have already done something about it. People say don't go to Mars, save the planet earth instead. So Elon answers I made electric cars. Then they are like, but they don't run on renewable energy but coal power plants. So he can reply I am also promoting solar power through Solar City. Ah whatever, people shouldn't be driving car anyway, they should take trains. Well I came up with Hyperloop, Elon can answer to that. But somehow it is just never enough. He should have pushed out an electric car yesterday which everybody could have afforded while simultaneously have closed down all coal plants and replaced them with solar. And his rockets are nothing because he hasn't landed on the moon like NASA yet so screw him. Man these negative people just gets my blood boiling. I am from Norway, so I grew up with the Law of Jante. I am surprised that that law seems to have spread across the globe.

teabee89 10y ago
I agree with you a lot. Thanks for saying this, it's been annoying me too. Lots of anti-Elonism in France as well. And even with solar power, I've heard criticism, stating that it's not renewable because you need rare earths possibly for solar panels (i don't know) but especially for batteries. And that it's only effective enough in regions where there is a lot of sun, even though Elon claims that it would work fine even in the UK. Action > Words even when it's about physics.
andrepd 10y ago
Oh it's progress, no doubt. There's no question about that. What me and other skeptics argue against is these kinds of overly futuristic announcements that have no ground in reality, yet have people praising them like they are some kind of achievement by themselves. Elon Musk grandly announces: I'm going to make humans an interplanetary species. This is such a grand and far reaching goal that were it to be achieved it would be by far, by very very far, the most important achievement of the human species so far. So far I've seen him put a rocket in orbit and land it again.* So excuse me if I tamper my enthusiasm. Hyperloop, as you so mentioned? Yeah, he announced he would try to implement a concept already thought about, that without absolutely major breakthroughs in several fields remains impossible or at a cost of trillions of dollars, by far the most expensive private undertaking in history. So excuse me if I tamper my enthusiasm. *(Don't get me wrong, this is an amazing achievement, it deserves all the praise it can get and I will be the first to give it. It's when he starts with these talks of master plans, and multitrillionaire projects, and making humans a multiplanetary species, that my brow starts to frown.m)
- csl 10y ago
  I think people get excited about his plans because he has a track record of actually delivering. Self-landing boosters on autonomous boats? A lot of people could have thought about that, but he (and his employees!) actually did it! So when he talk about stuff like this, people have begun to pay attention.
- rohit89 10y ago
  People praise him because he has a plan in the first place and is working towards achieving it. Whether he succeeds or not, he's atleast making the effort. This is why people get irritated when he gets criticized because the arguments boil down to "this is so ambitious and will likely fail, so why even try?"
- celticninja 10y ago
  Wasn't JFKs claim that the US would put a man on the moon within a decade seen as overly futuristic/optimistic at the time?
- awesomerobot 10y ago
  I'll praise anyone who tries this shit, even if it's just a presentation to start. I'd like to encourage more people to try.
- lsadam0 10y ago
  "No ground in reality" according to you. History is full of the success and failures of people trying to achieve such pie in the sky ideals. While past success is not a true indication of future success, Musk has a history of delivering. Your argument comes across as "There are unsolved problems, and it's expensive, so don't try". Attitudes like that don't drive human progress. Society was not built on "it's hard, so don't try". I'm kind of surprised that this attitude has to be argued against on Hacker News, of all places.
- collinmanderson 10y ago
  Yes, the plan itself doesn't deserve a lot of praise, but knowing Elon, it will likely happen eventually (though usually later than when he says it will :)
SocratesV 10y ago
Potentially relevant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_of_Restelo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_of_Restelo
7952 10y ago
The attitude is probably focused at the generality of human activity. So many important projects become domainated by personal rivalries and greed. The irony is that Musk has found a way to avoid exactly this kind of problem. Mars can act as a unifying mission that everyone can work towards. There is something more important than the individual that justifies the effort. And it could inspire a whole host of companies that simply try and do X on Mars. And perhaps in the process we will learn how to do X better on Earth also. Because the unique constraints of Mars are an extreme version of the sustainability issues we face on earth. Humanity has to evolve to be independant of ecosystems that we will otherwise destroy.
sgt 10y ago
Tesla cars are extremely popular in Norway though - I was in Bergen a few months back and electric cars were everywhere.
- sjm 10y ago
  Norwegian's receive huge benefits when buying an electric car as far as I recall — tax breaks, free parking, free pass through road tolls, etc.
andrewwhartion 10y ago
> I am from Norway, so I grew up with the Law of Jante. I am surprised that that law seems to have spread across the globe. A similar concept is 'tall poppy syndrome'.
internaut 10y ago
> Man these negative people just gets my blood boiling. I am from Norway, so I grew up with the Law of Jante. I am surprised that that law seems to have spread across the globe. I understand where you're coming from. But it is not about all negativity per se. I am quite negative about our progress over the past few decades. But that is because I think we could be doing much, much more. I think it is a combination of seemingly opposite attributes that is the most helpful here. Enough optimism to have faith in the future, and enough pessimism in another part of the brain to catch the bugs before you get taken down by the obstacles. So please don't throw me in with the crab people! :-) Elon Musk has given us a torch for the first time in a long, long time, and if he falters, our cadre shall pick up the fire and continue on. http://millionmarspledge.com/ http://millionmarspledge.com/ AD ASTRA.
thecrow1213 10y ago
Thank you for this sir. I'm with you, Elon has accomplished a breadth of amazing things fairly early in his career. If you don't find that astounding then GTFO IMHO

teabee89 10y ago

I agree with you a lot. Thanks for saying this, it's been annoying me too. Lots of anti-Elonism in France as well. And even with solar power, I've heard criticism, stating that it's not renewable because you need rare earths possibly for solar panels (i don't know) but especially for batteries. And that it's only effective enough in regions where there is a lot of sun, even though Elon claims that it would work fine even in the UK. Action > Words even when it's about physics.

andrepd 10y ago

Oh it's progress, no doubt. There's no question about that. What me and other skeptics argue against is these kinds of overly futuristic announcements that have no ground in reality, yet have people praising them like they are some kind of achievement by themselves. Elon Musk grandly announces: I'm going to make humans an interplanetary species. This is such a grand and far reaching goal that were it to be achieved it would be by far, by very very far, the most important achievement of the human species so far. So far I've seen him put a rocket in orbit and land it again.* So excuse me if I tamper my enthusiasm. Hyperloop, as you so mentioned? Yeah, he announced he would try to implement a concept already thought about, that without absolutely major breakthroughs in several fields remains impossible or at a cost of trillions of dollars, by far the most expensive private undertaking in history. So excuse me if I tamper my enthusiasm. *(Don't get me wrong, this is an amazing achievement, it deserves all the praise it can get and I will be the first to give it. It's when he starts with these talks of master plans, and multitrillionaire projects, and making humans a multiplanetary species, that my brow starts to frown.m)

csl 10y ago
I think people get excited about his plans because he has a track record of actually delivering. Self-landing boosters on autonomous boats? A lot of people could have thought about that, but he (and his employees!) actually did it! So when he talk about stuff like this, people have begun to pay attention.
rohit89 10y ago
People praise him because he has a plan in the first place and is working towards achieving it. Whether he succeeds or not, he's atleast making the effort. This is why people get irritated when he gets criticized because the arguments boil down to "this is so ambitious and will likely fail, so why even try?"
celticninja 10y ago
Wasn't JFKs claim that the US would put a man on the moon within a decade seen as overly futuristic/optimistic at the time?
awesomerobot 10y ago
I'll praise anyone who tries this shit, even if it's just a presentation to start. I'd like to encourage more people to try.
lsadam0 10y ago
"No ground in reality" according to you. History is full of the success and failures of people trying to achieve such pie in the sky ideals. While past success is not a true indication of future success, Musk has a history of delivering. Your argument comes across as "There are unsolved problems, and it's expensive, so don't try". Attitudes like that don't drive human progress. Society was not built on "it's hard, so don't try". I'm kind of surprised that this attitude has to be argued against on Hacker News, of all places.
collinmanderson 10y ago
Yes, the plan itself doesn't deserve a lot of praise, but knowing Elon, it will likely happen eventually (though usually later than when he says it will :)

SocratesV 10y ago

Potentially relevant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_of_Restelo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_of_Restelo

7952 10y ago

The attitude is probably focused at the generality of human activity. So many important projects become domainated by personal rivalries and greed. The irony is that Musk has found a way to avoid exactly this kind of problem. Mars can act as a unifying mission that everyone can work towards. There is something more important than the individual that justifies the effort. And it could inspire a whole host of companies that simply try and do X on Mars. And perhaps in the process we will learn how to do X better on Earth also. Because the unique constraints of Mars are an extreme version of the sustainability issues we face on earth. Humanity has to evolve to be independant of ecosystems that we will otherwise destroy.

sgt 10y ago

Tesla cars are extremely popular in Norway though - I was in Bergen a few months back and electric cars were everywhere.

sjm 10y ago
Norwegian's receive huge benefits when buying an electric car as far as I recall — tax breaks, free parking, free pass through road tolls, etc.

andrewwhartion 10y ago

> I am from Norway, so I grew up with the Law of Jante. I am surprised that that law seems to have spread across the globe. A similar concept is 'tall poppy syndrome'.

internaut 10y ago

> Man these negative people just gets my blood boiling. I am from Norway, so I grew up with the Law of Jante. I am surprised that that law seems to have spread across the globe. I understand where you're coming from. But it is not about all negativity per se. I am quite negative about our progress over the past few decades. But that is because I think we could be doing much, much more. I think it is a combination of seemingly opposite attributes that is the most helpful here. Enough optimism to have faith in the future, and enough pessimism in another part of the brain to catch the bugs before you get taken down by the obstacles. So please don't throw me in with the crab people! :-) Elon Musk has given us a torch for the first time in a long, long time, and if he falters, our cadre shall pick up the fire and continue on. http://millionmarspledge.com/ http://millionmarspledge.com/ AD ASTRA.

thecrow1213 10y ago

Thank you for this sir. I'm with you, Elon has accomplished a breadth of amazing things fairly early in his career. If you don't find that astounding then GTFO IMHO