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> Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impen

> Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? They don't care, but the restaurant business is precarious. They know that hiring people for minimum wage works, and keeps their margins the way they are. However, investing is kiosks and hardware is something they'd have to amortize over time. An increase in minimum wage might tip them over - the risk of the machines not working and constantly requiring expensive repairs might be outweighed by the fact you don't have to pay extra money to your employees. > The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. I'd rather line up in a self service lane or self checkout line in a grocery or fast food place than deal with another person. And I doubt I qualify as a person "at the bottom".

icanhackit 10y ago
> An increase in minimum wage might tip them over People in the US look at things in a vacuum, however a good portion of the rest of the world, chiefly Western Europe, Australia and Canada make high minimum wage, good food and service work. > Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. Then I'm in good company. If you've ever been to the big cities in Japan you'll notice that you can buy cheap delicious ramen ordered from a ticket machine and served to you through a curtain in your booth so that you never see another person's face, but you'll also notice lines out the door for mid and high-end restaurants. Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire. I guess that I don't understand the concept of desire. To me, there is no additional benefit for having people serve me, except that the food might be better. I'd be just as happy getting a sandwich from an automat as from a person serving it on a china plate. Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting?
  - icanhackit 10y ago
    > Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting? Sorry if there's a running theme here - using Japan as an example where automation, pre-made foods and very hands-on service are all widely available: automated services mean that whatever ingredients you're using need to be consistent in flavor, size, shape etc. Humans have greater capacity to adapt with what resources they have. Pre-made foods are relatively bland as a result of this. It's like the difference between McDonalds, which has very tight processes and a largely inflexible menu, versus a gourmet burger joint which might be using a different cheese, grade of bun, larger patties, more or less condiments from one day to another. Another example would be micro-brewed beers versus macro-brewed beers. Micro-brewed beers tend to be more exotic in their flavors and styles while sacrificing consistency, whereas macro-brewed beers tend to be very consistent in taste at the expense of flavor. Judging from your personal preferences this probably means little to you but, usually for hedonistic reasons, it's important to most other people. The above also ignores peoples needs for social contact, desire to appear more wealthy or sophisticated than they really are etc. It's illogical but humans use these aspects as breeding tools and to trigger dopamine release. Sex and drugs.
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      Hate to belabor a point but I think there's something I'm missing and want to get to the bottom of it. I think chefs aren't going anywhere for a while. They're in charge of too many things, from sourcing food, preparing and coming up with new dishes, balancing the seasoning for every dish, etc etc. Appearances to the contrary, I really do like eating good food and I have fairly high standards when it comes to food, and I appreciate what chefs have to do to make the most out of nothing. ("Beef tongue is only 1.50 a pound! Guess what's on special tonight") The benefit I'm not seeing is having a human being (be it a fast food worker, or a waiter) take your order. That's the part I don't get. I would love to order through a touch screen and just have the food come out. Unless you're a sommelier, you really don't add any value to the dining experience, unless the customer likes bossing people around.
      - icanhackit 10y ago

icanhackit 10y ago

> An increase in minimum wage might tip them over People in the US look at things in a vacuum, however a good portion of the rest of the world, chiefly Western Europe, Australia and Canada make high minimum wage, good food and service work. > Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. Then I'm in good company. If you've ever been to the big cities in Japan you'll notice that you can buy cheap delicious ramen ordered from a ticket machine and served to you through a curtain in your booth so that you never see another person's face, but you'll also notice lines out the door for mid and high-end restaurants. Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire.

jimmywanger 10y ago
> Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire. I guess that I don't understand the concept of desire. To me, there is no additional benefit for having people serve me, except that the food might be better. I'd be just as happy getting a sandwich from an automat as from a person serving it on a china plate. Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting?
- icanhackit 10y ago
  > Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting? Sorry if there's a running theme here - using Japan as an example where automation, pre-made foods and very hands-on service are all widely available: automated services mean that whatever ingredients you're using need to be consistent in flavor, size, shape etc. Humans have greater capacity to adapt with what resources they have. Pre-made foods are relatively bland as a result of this. It's like the difference between McDonalds, which has very tight processes and a largely inflexible menu, versus a gourmet burger joint which might be using a different cheese, grade of bun, larger patties, more or less condiments from one day to another. Another example would be micro-brewed beers versus macro-brewed beers. Micro-brewed beers tend to be more exotic in their flavors and styles while sacrificing consistency, whereas macro-brewed beers tend to be very consistent in taste at the expense of flavor. Judging from your personal preferences this probably means little to you but, usually for hedonistic reasons, it's important to most other people. The above also ignores peoples needs for social contact, desire to appear more wealthy or sophisticated than they really are etc. It's illogical but humans use these aspects as breeding tools and to trigger dopamine release. Sex and drugs.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    Hate to belabor a point but I think there's something I'm missing and want to get to the bottom of it. I think chefs aren't going anywhere for a while. They're in charge of too many things, from sourcing food, preparing and coming up with new dishes, balancing the seasoning for every dish, etc etc. Appearances to the contrary, I really do like eating good food and I have fairly high standards when it comes to food, and I appreciate what chefs have to do to make the most out of nothing. ("Beef tongue is only 1.50 a pound! Guess what's on special tonight") The benefit I'm not seeing is having a human being (be it a fast food worker, or a waiter) take your order. That's the part I don't get. I would love to order through a touch screen and just have the food come out. Unless you're a sommelier, you really don't add any value to the dining experience, unless the customer likes bossing people around.
    - icanhackit 10y ago