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> The cashier jobs are not coming back. Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these pe

> The cashier jobs are not coming back. Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? I just find it hard to believe it's for altruistic reasons that they want wages kept low, considering they'd sooner have a machine or third party make their tortillas, grind their coffee, bake their bread etc. than have staff do it in-house like someone who actually cared about jobs or even quality. The people who will buy food from the vending machine type services: The people at the bottom. And competing businesses will find ways of making food and services cheaper and cheaper as technology improves. The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. You've merely shifted those at the bottom one step forward in the food chain. The proof? Look at countries like Australia where the minimum wage is already respectable and you'll find low unemployment and a lot of people working in hospitality or similar services.

jimmywanger 10y ago
> Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? They don't care, but the restaurant business is precarious. They know that hiring people for minimum wage works, and keeps their margins the way they are. However, investing is kiosks and hardware is something they'd have to amortize over time. An increase in minimum wage might tip them over - the risk of the machines not working and constantly requiring expensive repairs might be outweighed by the fact you don't have to pay extra money to your employees. > The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. I'd rather line up in a self service lane or self checkout line in a grocery or fast food place than deal with another person. And I doubt I qualify as a person "at the bottom".
- icanhackit 10y ago
  > An increase in minimum wage might tip them over People in the US look at things in a vacuum, however a good portion of the rest of the world, chiefly Western Europe, Australia and Canada make high minimum wage, good food and service work. > Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. Then I'm in good company. If you've ever been to the big cities in Japan you'll notice that you can buy cheap delicious ramen ordered from a ticket machine and served to you through a curtain in your booth so that you never see another person's face, but you'll also notice lines out the door for mid and high-end restaurants. Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    > Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire. I guess that I don't understand the concept of desire. To me, there is no additional benefit for having people serve me, except that the food might be better. I'd be just as happy getting a sandwich from an automat as from a person serving it on a china plate. Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting?
    - icanhackit 10y ago
      > Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting? Sorry if there's a running theme here - using Japan as an example where automation, pre-made foods and very hands-on service are all widely available: automated services mean that whatever ingredients you're using need to be consistent in flavor, size, shape etc. Humans have greater capacity to adapt with what resources they have. Pre-made foods are relatively bland as a result of this. It's like the difference between McDonalds, which has very tight processes and a largely inflexible menu, versus a gourmet burger joint which might be using a different cheese, grade of bun, larger patties, more or less condiments from one day to another. Another example would be micro-brewed beers versus macro-brewed beers. Micro-brewed beers tend to be more exotic in their flavors and styles while sacrificing consistency, whereas macro-brewed beers tend to be very consistent in taste at the expense of flavor. Judging from your personal preferences this probably means little to you but, usually for hedonistic reasons, it's important to most other people. The above also ignores peoples needs for social contact, desire to appear more wealthy or sophisticated than they really are etc. It's illogical but humans use these aspects as breeding tools and to trigger dopamine release. Sex and drugs.

jimmywanger 10y ago

> Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? They don't care, but the restaurant business is precarious. They know that hiring people for minimum wage works, and keeps their margins the way they are. However, investing is kiosks and hardware is something they'd have to amortize over time. An increase in minimum wage might tip them over - the risk of the machines not working and constantly requiring expensive repairs might be outweighed by the fact you don't have to pay extra money to your employees. > The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. I'd rather line up in a self service lane or self checkout line in a grocery or fast food place than deal with another person. And I doubt I qualify as a person "at the bottom".

icanhackit 10y ago
> An increase in minimum wage might tip them over People in the US look at things in a vacuum, however a good portion of the rest of the world, chiefly Western Europe, Australia and Canada make high minimum wage, good food and service work. > Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. Then I'm in good company. If you've ever been to the big cities in Japan you'll notice that you can buy cheap delicious ramen ordered from a ticket machine and served to you through a curtain in your booth so that you never see another person's face, but you'll also notice lines out the door for mid and high-end restaurants. Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire. I guess that I don't understand the concept of desire. To me, there is no additional benefit for having people serve me, except that the food might be better. I'd be just as happy getting a sandwich from an automat as from a person serving it on a china plate. Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting?
  - icanhackit 10y ago
    > Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting? Sorry if there's a running theme here - using Japan as an example where automation, pre-made foods and very hands-on service are all widely available: automated services mean that whatever ingredients you're using need to be consistent in flavor, size, shape etc. Humans have greater capacity to adapt with what resources they have. Pre-made foods are relatively bland as a result of this. It's like the difference between McDonalds, which has very tight processes and a largely inflexible menu, versus a gourmet burger joint which might be using a different cheese, grade of bun, larger patties, more or less condiments from one day to another. Another example would be micro-brewed beers versus macro-brewed beers. Micro-brewed beers tend to be more exotic in their flavors and styles while sacrificing consistency, whereas macro-brewed beers tend to be very consistent in taste at the expense of flavor. Judging from your personal preferences this probably means little to you but, usually for hedonistic reasons, it's important to most other people. The above also ignores peoples needs for social contact, desire to appear more wealthy or sophisticated than they really are etc. It's illogical but humans use these aspects as breeding tools and to trigger dopamine release. Sex and drugs.