5 ms·

As a reminder, ESR thinks that women shouldn't be allowed around software engineers because they're part of a complex conspiracy to file false rape claims again

As a reminder, ESR thinks that women shouldn't be allowed around software engineers because they're part of a complex conspiracy to file false rape claims against them (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/06/linus_torvalds_targeted_by_honeytraps_says_eric_raymond/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/06/linus_torvalds_targe...).

rascul 10y ago
That's a bit of a stretch from what he actually posted. May as well link directly to the post, also. http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907
lwhalen 10y ago
Jesus, ad hominim much? I can't speak for you, but I've never met an idiot so completely useless I couldn't learn something from them.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jmcgough 10y ago
  It's actually the opposite of ad hominem - I'm addressing his beliefs, not him as a person. I recognize that he's contributed value to the OSS community, but over the last decade or two I think he's done far more harm than good. A number of his beliefs and writings are extremely problematic, and turning a blind eye to it because of his contributions taints the OSS community. Another example: "In the U.S., blacks are 12% of the population but commit 50% of violent crimes; can anyone honestly think this is unconnected to the fact that they average 15 points of IQ lower than the general population? That stupid people are more violent is a fact independent of skin color." -Eric S. Raymond
  - lwhalen 10y ago
    I don't have the sociology or statistical analysis chops to thoroughly evaluate that statement, so I ask from a place of sincere curiosity - is the statement, or the numbers/sources, incorrect? If so, how?
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    > I'm addressing his beliefs, not him as a person That is ad-hominem. What is a person? His beliefs - and actions - of course. Well, I imagine that you could argue a person is the structural disposition of a bunch of atoms, but it easier to summarize that as "beliefs". Ad-hominem attack means diminishing some actions/qualities of a person because of other actions/qualities of said person, and that is what the parent was arguing. Not that it is always inappropriate, but it is ad-hominem.
gonvaled 10y ago
Why uncomfortable men wouldn't men be targeted like that? Let's say you are a powerful and interested party, let me think, let's say you are the US government. You want copyright infractions to stop (let's say that is a worthy goal, it does not really matter), and you also want to do your little dirty Intelligence without the public interfering. There is this guy Assange, who is making a good case for the other side, difficult to stop and, like most guys, has a thing for women. How easy is it for you to get some random (or non-random) woman, and get her to testify against him? You have a score of ways to get somebody to do that for you. Look somebody with a grudge against Assange, or pay her enough money, or promise her whatever she may want. The thing is, since women's word is accepted at face value, men have absolutely no way of getting fair treatment. If I was younger now, I would even be careful not to approach women as a normal person.

rascul 10y ago

That's a bit of a stretch from what he actually posted. May as well link directly to the post, also. http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907

lwhalen 10y ago

Jesus, ad hominim much? I can't speak for you, but I've never met an idiot so completely useless I couldn't learn something from them.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jmcgough 10y ago
It's actually the opposite of ad hominem - I'm addressing his beliefs, not him as a person. I recognize that he's contributed value to the OSS community, but over the last decade or two I think he's done far more harm than good. A number of his beliefs and writings are extremely problematic, and turning a blind eye to it because of his contributions taints the OSS community. Another example: "In the U.S., blacks are 12% of the population but commit 50% of violent crimes; can anyone honestly think this is unconnected to the fact that they average 15 points of IQ lower than the general population? That stupid people are more violent is a fact independent of skin color." -Eric S. Raymond
- lwhalen 10y ago
  I don't have the sociology or statistical analysis chops to thoroughly evaluate that statement, so I ask from a place of sincere curiosity - is the statement, or the numbers/sources, incorrect? If so, how?
- gonvaled 10y ago
  > I'm addressing his beliefs, not him as a person That is ad-hominem. What is a person? His beliefs - and actions - of course. Well, I imagine that you could argue a person is the structural disposition of a bunch of atoms, but it easier to summarize that as "beliefs". Ad-hominem attack means diminishing some actions/qualities of a person because of other actions/qualities of said person, and that is what the parent was arguing. Not that it is always inappropriate, but it is ad-hominem.

gonvaled 10y ago

Why uncomfortable men wouldn't men be targeted like that? Let's say you are a powerful and interested party, let me think, let's say you are the US government. You want copyright infractions to stop (let's say that is a worthy goal, it does not really matter), and you also want to do your little dirty Intelligence without the public interfering. There is this guy Assange, who is making a good case for the other side, difficult to stop and, like most guys, has a thing for women. How easy is it for you to get some random (or non-random) woman, and get her to testify against him? You have a score of ways to get somebody to do that for you. Look somebody with a grudge against Assange, or pay her enough money, or promise her whatever she may want. The thing is, since women's word is accepted at face value, men have absolutely no way of getting fair treatment. If I was younger now, I would even be careful not to approach women as a normal person.