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This is an interesting subject. Not to interject politics into it, but during the debate last night one of the candidates said that they wanted to raise the mi

This is an interesting subject. Not to interject politics into it, but during the debate last night one of the candidates said that they wanted to raise the minimum wage (to 15 an hour I believe), while simultaneously adding more good paying jobs to the economy. Those are fundamentally opposite goals - at least, the government isn't going to be able to do it in any meaningful way. With a 15 dollar minimum wage, fast food restaurants are rolling out kiosk technology, that allows you to order without an employee present. Even Applebee's and TGI Friday's is experimenting with software + an iPad to allow you to order directly from your table. Those jobs aren't coming back. Not ever. Kiosks don't complain, they don't screw up orders, they don't have sick days, and they work for free. Once the initial capital investment is over, it's pure profit, and for those who say that you can have more jobs repairing and servicing the kiosks, I say that if the price to repair and service kiosks goes higher than the wage for employees, the kiosks will go the way of the dodo. Take a look at Eatsa. http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2015/08/31/fast-food-reinvented-eatsa-a-fully-automated-restaurant-opens-today/ http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2015/08/31/fast-food-re.... They have 5-6 back of the house employees. The cashier jobs are not coming back.

icanhackit 10y ago
> The cashier jobs are not coming back. Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? I just find it hard to believe it's for altruistic reasons that they want wages kept low, considering they'd sooner have a machine or third party make their tortillas, grind their coffee, bake their bread etc. than have staff do it in-house like someone who actually cared about jobs or even quality. The people who will buy food from the vending machine type services: The people at the bottom. And competing businesses will find ways of making food and services cheaper and cheaper as technology improves. The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. You've merely shifted those at the bottom one step forward in the food chain. The proof? Look at countries like Australia where the minimum wage is already respectable and you'll find low unemployment and a lot of people working in hospitality or similar services.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? They don't care, but the restaurant business is precarious. They know that hiring people for minimum wage works, and keeps their margins the way they are. However, investing is kiosks and hardware is something they'd have to amortize over time. An increase in minimum wage might tip them over - the risk of the machines not working and constantly requiring expensive repairs might be outweighed by the fact you don't have to pay extra money to your employees. > The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. I'd rather line up in a self service lane or self checkout line in a grocery or fast food place than deal with another person. And I doubt I qualify as a person "at the bottom".
  - icanhackit 10y ago
    > An increase in minimum wage might tip them over People in the US look at things in a vacuum, however a good portion of the rest of the world, chiefly Western Europe, Australia and Canada make high minimum wage, good food and service work. > Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. Then I'm in good company. If you've ever been to the big cities in Japan you'll notice that you can buy cheap delicious ramen ordered from a ticket machine and served to you through a curtain in your booth so that you never see another person's face, but you'll also notice lines out the door for mid and high-end restaurants. Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire.
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      > Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire. I guess that I don't understand the concept of desire. To me, there is no additional benefit for having people serve me, except that the food might be better. I'd be just as happy getting a sandwich from an automat as from a person serving it on a china plate. Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting?

icanhackit 10y ago

> The cashier jobs are not coming back. Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? I just find it hard to believe it's for altruistic reasons that they want wages kept low, considering they'd sooner have a machine or third party make their tortillas, grind their coffee, bake their bread etc. than have staff do it in-house like someone who actually cared about jobs or even quality. The people who will buy food from the vending machine type services: The people at the bottom. And competing businesses will find ways of making food and services cheaper and cheaper as technology improves. The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. You've merely shifted those at the bottom one step forward in the food chain. The proof? Look at countries like Australia where the minimum wage is already respectable and you'll find low unemployment and a lot of people working in hospitality or similar services.

jimmywanger 10y ago
> Right, but I have to wonder if those who want to keep minimum wage down really care about keeping jobs for all these people. Surely they'd celebrate the impending automation of these jobs, where they only need to worry about purchasing equipment rather than the well-being of squishy meat-bags known as employees? They don't care, but the restaurant business is precarious. They know that hiring people for minimum wage works, and keeps their margins the way they are. However, investing is kiosks and hardware is something they'd have to amortize over time. An increase in minimum wage might tip them over - the risk of the machines not working and constantly requiring expensive repairs might be outweighed by the fact you don't have to pay extra money to your employees. > The people earning respectable amounts of money for their time and effort, they're going to be eating at places served by other people. Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. I'd rather line up in a self service lane or self checkout line in a grocery or fast food place than deal with another person. And I doubt I qualify as a person "at the bottom".
- icanhackit 10y ago
  > An increase in minimum wage might tip them over People in the US look at things in a vacuum, however a good portion of the rest of the world, chiefly Western Europe, Australia and Canada make high minimum wage, good food and service work. > Just a personal anecodote, I'm fairly antisocial. Then I'm in good company. If you've ever been to the big cities in Japan you'll notice that you can buy cheap delicious ramen ordered from a ticket machine and served to you through a curtain in your booth so that you never see another person's face, but you'll also notice lines out the door for mid and high-end restaurants. Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    > Cheapness and ease of access has nothing to do with desire. I guess that I don't understand the concept of desire. To me, there is no additional benefit for having people serve me, except that the food might be better. I'd be just as happy getting a sandwich from an automat as from a person serving it on a china plate. Simply put, what value do we get from human interaction in a dining setting?