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Sucks less until it starts to suck more. It's religion not science. Classic NIH.

lifthrasiir 10y ago
I don't doubt that this won't fly in the traditional sense, but at the very least NIH is also a wheel for diversity. It is clearly interesting to see what can be done there.
icebraining 10y ago
Nonsense. They have a clear philosophy on what makes software suck less, it doesn't matter where it comes from. http://suckless.org/philosophy http://suckless.org/philosophy
- saynsedit 10y ago
  Exactly my point. Philosophy has its place in software engineering but often it's not on a pedestal.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    I was responding to the "NIH" comment. It's not NIH syndrome if it doesn't matter where it comes from. Philosophy has its place in software engineering but often it's not on a pedestal. That's a philosophy in itself, as is pragmatism or adherence to science. You just happen to disagree with theirs.
    - saynsedit 10y ago
      Meh. I don't buy the "moderate valuing of philosophy is a philosophy" argument. If everything is a philosophy then nothing is a philosophy. My point is, suckless products can actually suck despite following their "philosophy." It's not only the UI, although strictly adhering to the "UNIX" philosophy has its flaws. No, it's the suckiness of the source code that I'm talking about, e.g. dwm is composed of ad-hoc internal abstractions and special cases based on arcane X11 WM domain knowledge, not to mention the suckless comment "philosophy": that comments are a sign of bad code therefore don't use them. Their "philosophy" is narrow-minded and overly simplistic, like a religion. It's also not based in truth, just biased anecdotes, e.g. "Most hackers actually don’t care much about code quality." ...What? Is there a source for this information? Their "philosophy" only makes sense for the smallest toy programs. Notice how there is no suckless kernel, It would likely be a heaping pile. Dogma loses, science wins.
      - Touche 10y ago
        > Meh. I don't buy the "moderate valuing of philosophy is a philosophy" argument. If everything is a philosophy then nothing is a philosophy. Nope, all ideas are philosophy. Just as all matter is made up of atoms. You can't escape philosophy no matter how hard you try.
        saynsedit 10y ago
        Except "all matter is made of atoms" has been empirically shown and is scientifically consistent, whereas "all ideas are philosophy" is just meaningless abstract gibberish. It's not the same.
        Touche 10y ago
        Luckily pragmatism really is a philosophy, with an actual documented history. Is that scientific enough for you?
        saynsedit 10y ago
        It doesn't matter. Engineering disciplines don't need a philosophy. Imagine if bridge builders had bridge building philosophies. It's nonsense.

I don't doubt that this won't fly in the traditional sense, but at the very least NIH is also a wheel for diversity. It is clearly interesting to see what can be done there.

icebraining 10y ago

Nonsense. They have a clear philosophy on what makes software suck less, it doesn't matter where it comes from. http://suckless.org/philosophy http://suckless.org/philosophy

saynsedit 10y ago
Exactly my point. Philosophy has its place in software engineering but often it's not on a pedestal.
- icebraining 10y ago
  I was responding to the "NIH" comment. It's not NIH syndrome if it doesn't matter where it comes from. Philosophy has its place in software engineering but often it's not on a pedestal. That's a philosophy in itself, as is pragmatism or adherence to science. You just happen to disagree with theirs.
  - saynsedit 10y ago
    Meh. I don't buy the "moderate valuing of philosophy is a philosophy" argument. If everything is a philosophy then nothing is a philosophy. My point is, suckless products can actually suck despite following their "philosophy." It's not only the UI, although strictly adhering to the "UNIX" philosophy has its flaws. No, it's the suckiness of the source code that I'm talking about, e.g. dwm is composed of ad-hoc internal abstractions and special cases based on arcane X11 WM domain knowledge, not to mention the suckless comment "philosophy": that comments are a sign of bad code therefore don't use them. Their "philosophy" is narrow-minded and overly simplistic, like a religion. It's also not based in truth, just biased anecdotes, e.g. "Most hackers actually don’t care much about code quality." ...What? Is there a source for this information? Their "philosophy" only makes sense for the smallest toy programs. Notice how there is no suckless kernel, It would likely be a heaping pile. Dogma loses, science wins.
    - Touche 10y ago
      > Meh. I don't buy the "moderate valuing of philosophy is a philosophy" argument. If everything is a philosophy then nothing is a philosophy. Nope, all ideas are philosophy. Just as all matter is made up of atoms. You can't escape philosophy no matter how hard you try.
      - saynsedit 10y ago
        Except "all matter is made of atoms" has been empirically shown and is scientifically consistent, whereas "all ideas are philosophy" is just meaningless abstract gibberish. It's not the same.
        Touche 10y ago
        Luckily pragmatism really is a philosophy, with an actual documented history. Is that scientific enough for you?
        saynsedit 10y ago
        It doesn't matter. Engineering disciplines don't need a philosophy. Imagine if bridge builders had bridge building philosophies. It's nonsense.