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Do you really think that financially incentivizing voting will create good downstream effects? Almost all ideas of civic duty are historically drawn from non-fi

by Jd 10y ago

Do you really think that financially incentivizing voting will create good downstream effects? Almost all ideas of civic duty are historically drawn from non-financial incentives and the idea of attaching some financial incentive to them potentially seems to further exacerbate a "pay to play" atmosphere that is one of the reasons people (like myself) don't find it particularly stimulating to participate in the present political climate.

danieltillett 10y ago
Here in Australia we get a fine if we don’t turn up at the polling place and have our name crossed off the list on election day. Of course this creates a pool of voters (5-10%) who really don’t want to participate (these people typically spoil their ballot by doing things like drawing a penis on the ballot), but what this does do is keep a much larger section of the population engaged in the political process. What happens is that many people who don’t really care about politics most of the time take notice in the last few weeks of an election campaign because they know they will be voting. While not perfect, I think the good of “compulsory voting” outweighs the negative.
- Jd 10y ago
  Do you think the penalty works better than a positive incentive? i.e. if you got $5 to vote or a 1 in 100 chance of $1000? Also, was the penalty introduced in order to increase turnout? Is there any data on how it affected it, including among which demographics?
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    Normally people give a higher weight to a loss than the equivalent positive gain so I think fines should work better than a cash payment. We have had the fine system since the 1920s so it is really hard to know how it affects the political process. One thing it does do is get the turn out to >95% (we also get a fine if we don’t register too). One of the big positives is it takes away the decision of voting or not - it is just one of those things like paying your taxes that you have to do.
- hiharryhere 10y ago
  I like compulsory voting. It means candidates don't need to run to the left/right extremes to 'energise' the base or encourage those voters to show up. Instead they can focus time and airtime on more reasonable policies for the centre majority in the knowledge that those on the periphery will have to show up anyway.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  I tend to agree. The UK has had big drops in turnout recently, due to inscreasing distrust of politics, and the most recent government was elected by less than a quarter of the electorate. It's led to some claims that our democracy is becoming dysfunctional and growing calls for PR or electoral reform. At least with compulsion you have to be positive in your apathy!
- prawn 10y ago
  Incidentally, I think the AEC said prior to the last election that you could effectively draw a cock and balls on your ballot, but if the intention of otherwise marking candidate preference was clear, the vote could count.
  - brassic 10y ago
    This happened in the last general election in the UK. Someone drew a penis next to the conservative candidate's name on the ballot paper and it was counted as a vote. http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2015-05-08/angry-voter-draws-penis-on-ballot-paper-and-it-counts/ http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2015-05-08/angry-voter-...
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  If you don't care enough to vote, or are just tuning in for a couple of weeks before voting, then maybe it's better that you don't.
- robbiep 10y ago
  There's a few factors at play here though. Preferential voting means it's harder to shift the mean anyway, because parties have to appeal to other parties/interest groups to get preference deals etc (of course no one has to follow a preference voting card!). Secondly, having 98% polling day turnout means you don't have to build outrage to get people to vote (as they do in the us/uk). I remember hearing that if polling day was rainy in the UK the conservatives could usually count on a 10% boost because their constituency have cars and the working class don't - not sure how true this is these days
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    Yes the combination of compulsory and preferential voting has a great calming influence on the political system. Our two major parties (labor and liberal) are very similar in practice as they are competing for the middle ground, not the exciting the extreme wings to the polls. The only downside is it tends to make for boring politics, but overall boring is good if you have to live in the country.
    - robbiep 10y ago
      pity it's such a shitstorm of conservative religious interest group pandering with a touch of racism, xenophobia and homophobia at present :(
      - danieltillett 10y ago
        Yes, but this actually a side effect of the how close our elections are. A few nut jobs on the far right of the Liberal party are able to cause mayhem due the slim majority the liberal party holds in parliament. The good thing is it is mostly just noise - what actually gets through the parliament is much more benign.

by Jd 10y ago

danieltillett 10y ago

Here in Australia we get a fine if we don’t turn up at the polling place and have our name crossed off the list on election day. Of course this creates a pool of voters (5-10%) who really don’t want to participate (these people typically spoil their ballot by doing things like drawing a penis on the ballot), but what this does do is keep a much larger section of the population engaged in the political process. What happens is that many people who don’t really care about politics most of the time take notice in the last few weeks of an election campaign because they know they will be voting. While not perfect, I think the good of “compulsory voting” outweighs the negative.

Jd 10y ago
Do you think the penalty works better than a positive incentive? i.e. if you got $5 to vote or a 1 in 100 chance of $1000? Also, was the penalty introduced in order to increase turnout? Is there any data on how it affected it, including among which demographics?
- danieltillett 10y ago
  Normally people give a higher weight to a loss than the equivalent positive gain so I think fines should work better than a cash payment. We have had the fine system since the 1920s so it is really hard to know how it affects the political process. One thing it does do is get the turn out to >95% (we also get a fine if we don’t register too). One of the big positives is it takes away the decision of voting or not - it is just one of those things like paying your taxes that you have to do.
hiharryhere 10y ago
I like compulsory voting. It means candidates don't need to run to the left/right extremes to 'energise' the base or encourage those voters to show up. Instead they can focus time and airtime on more reasonable policies for the centre majority in the knowledge that those on the periphery will have to show up anyway.
anexprogrammer 10y ago
I tend to agree. The UK has had big drops in turnout recently, due to inscreasing distrust of politics, and the most recent government was elected by less than a quarter of the electorate. It's led to some claims that our democracy is becoming dysfunctional and growing calls for PR or electoral reform. At least with compulsion you have to be positive in your apathy!
prawn 10y ago
Incidentally, I think the AEC said prior to the last election that you could effectively draw a cock and balls on your ballot, but if the intention of otherwise marking candidate preference was clear, the vote could count.
- brassic 10y ago
  This happened in the last general election in the UK. Someone drew a penis next to the conservative candidate's name on the ballot paper and it was counted as a vote. http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2015-05-08/angry-voter-draws-penis-on-ballot-paper-and-it-counts/ http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2015-05-08/angry-voter-...
marcoperaza 10y ago
If you don't care enough to vote, or are just tuning in for a couple of weeks before voting, then maybe it's better that you don't.
robbiep 10y ago
There's a few factors at play here though. Preferential voting means it's harder to shift the mean anyway, because parties have to appeal to other parties/interest groups to get preference deals etc (of course no one has to follow a preference voting card!). Secondly, having 98% polling day turnout means you don't have to build outrage to get people to vote (as they do in the us/uk). I remember hearing that if polling day was rainy in the UK the conservatives could usually count on a 10% boost because their constituency have cars and the working class don't - not sure how true this is these days
- danieltillett 10y ago
  Yes the combination of compulsory and preferential voting has a great calming influence on the political system. Our two major parties (labor and liberal) are very similar in practice as they are competing for the middle ground, not the exciting the extreme wings to the polls. The only downside is it tends to make for boring politics, but overall boring is good if you have to live in the country.
  - robbiep 10y ago
    pity it's such a shitstorm of conservative religious interest group pandering with a touch of racism, xenophobia and homophobia at present :(
    - danieltillett 10y ago
      Yes, but this actually a side effect of the how close our elections are. A few nut jobs on the far right of the Liberal party are able to cause mayhem due the slim majority the liberal party holds in parliament. The good thing is it is mostly just noise - what actually gets through the parliament is much more benign.