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Having used Visual Studio for 10 years and even written a book on it I can say I am totally tired of this huge and bloated IDE and can't wait until I am done wi
by javery 17y ago
Having used Visual Studio for 10 years and even written a book on it I can say I am totally tired of this huge and bloated IDE and can't wait until I am done with .NET work or MonoDevelop is good enough to switch. (it's getting close)
- alexro 17y agoWhy can't you remove all unnecessary components from the IDE? For me VS 2008 with Resharper makes no problems at all on my 4GB Ram desktop with loads of other crap running in parallel.
- alexro 17y agoI even start 2-3 copies of the IDE sometimes when doing work on several projects. EDIT: wanted to ADD and didn't notice I was replying to myself
- rbanffy 17y agoYou can always delete a post.
- rbanffy 17y agoBecause "bloated" is still bloated, regardless of how much memory and processing speed you have at your disposal. It's much like a 200 Kg fat man driving a bus. He is still fat. That said, I once thought Emacs was bloated. Now, it's quite nimble compared to other programming tools.
- bad_user 17y agoA 200kg fat man can drive a bus just fine ;) On Emacs ... you still have to pay attention to the loaded extensions, and if you've got dozens of them (especially the Jdee extension, with all the dependencies) it can be as bloated as a full IDE (and it shows in startup times).
- jefffoster 17y agoAs a side note, you could run Emacs in daemon mode and connect to it with the client. See http://emacs-fu.blogspot.com/2009/02/emacs-daemon.html http://emacs-fu.blogspot.com/2009/02/emacs-daemon.html for more details. This way you only have to pay the startup cost once.
- rbanffy 17y agoEmacs runs comfortably on my netbook. I seriously doubt Visual Studio 2005 would be able to do it.
- jarek 17y agoI've ran VS 2008 on my almost-six-year-old laptop (P-M Banias 1.4 GHz, 1 GB DDR 333, 80 GB 5400 rpm) and I would not hesitate to call the experience "comfortable". What are the specs on your netbook -- is it really that much worse?
- anamax 17y ago> Because "bloated" is still bloated, regardless of how much memory and processing speed you have at your disposal. It's much like a 200 Kg fat man driving a bus. He is still fat. While he's fat, it's not clear why it matters. (It matters to his health but not to the bus passengers.) In what ways does the VS "bloat" matter?
- rbanffy 17y ago> In what ways does the VS "bloat" matter? Basically, it will not run on a small netbook. Not at acceptable speeds. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1260761 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1260761
- anamax 17y agoA lot of netbooks allow 2-3gb ram. Is that enough?
- rbanffy 17y agoIt reduces memory time. Mine has 1.5 gigs. Never (well, almost never) touches swap. Disk is a bit slow, probably because low-rpm. And it still runs Django faster than my company-issued 4 gig Windows Core 2 Duo laptop.
- rbanffy 17y agoOops... "battery time". More momory reduces battery time.
- gfodor 17y agoStop anthropomorphising your computer. If your RAM, disk, and CPU let certain software perform as fast as necessary, any "bloat" you are asribing to things is purely psychological, philosophical, or due to something else like poor UI design. Traditionally, "bloat" means that there is too much memory-resident tools or features such that their cumulative effect, while negligable in separation, becomes daunting for your machine to handle, resulting in a sluggish user experience. So, "bloat" is relative to your machine. What's "bloated" today is not going to be bloated 5-10 years from now, and vice versa. If this isn't what you're talking about, you're using the wrong word.
- rbanffy 17y ago> If your RAM, disk, and CPU let certain software perform as fast as necessary, any "bloat" you are asribing to things is purely psychological, philosophical, or due to something else like poor UI design. Actually, bloat is measurable. It's the difference between being able to use a tiny netbook for a whole day without bothering to recharge it (provided you have a big enough battery pack) and having to be tethered to a desk for the whole day. Of course I would love to have 16 cores of pure performance, 32 gigs of RAM, a couple terabytes of wicked fast SSD storage. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to fold it up, throw it in my shoulder bag and leave the office in order to work from a charming cafe while I watch the sunset. At least not for the next five years or so. Everybody has priorities.
- dschobel 17y agoIs it slower than any of the other enterprise grade IDEs (eclipse or intellij)? I haven't used the later in ~12 months but I don't remember them being particularly speedy in comparison. The only things I truly find insufferably slow in VS are the visual designers which do code-gen "on the fly".
- rbanffy 17y agoI am always annoyed when someone says "enterprise grade". What is an enterprise-grade IDE?
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- dschobel 17y agointegrated tools to support full software development life-cycle: things like version control, test runners, parameterizable builds, etc. plus the option for commercial support.
- albertzeyer 17y agoWhat IDE/texteditor does not have that? (Or can have it via a plugin?)
- rbanffy 17y agoWell... Notepad, for instance, is very limited.
- albertzeyer 17y agoI would not call Notepad a texteditor. It's nothing else than a textbox.
- locopati 17y agoI say this only partly tongue-in-cheek...an enterprise-grade IDE is one that you're probably not going to use unless the enterprise paid for it (that said, I'd readily shell out $250 on a JetBrains IDEA personal license if I went back to consulting - personal performance gains more than make up the cost).
- csomar 17y agoIt's fast enough in my 2.24Ghz Dual Core for Windows development. For Asp.net, my sister went on a small project and I don't understand why the hell it does take lot of time to process pages.
- frou_dh 17y agoI can't bear to use MonoDevelop because of the forest of unpleasant non-native UI in your face at all times. I'm an ungrateful sod, I know..
- bad_user 17y agoUnfortunately it uses GTK. If you're on Windows try SharpDevelop.
- city41 17y agoAs an ex developer on VS2010, I have to give my biased opinion that they actually took the thing in the right general direction and I actually rather enjoy using 2010 a good deal more than 2008. I honestly don't find it to be that bloated either. it loads up very quickly, and it only loads things as they are needed. If you never once use the Entity Framework for example, nothing related to it will ever load. This is different from 2008 which eager loaded most stuff. There was a huge push to get 2010 up to performance snuff towards the end of development, and I think they mostly succeeded. The new support for MEF for extending things is dramatically better than VSIP, which was a nightmare no matter how you sliced it. MEF is actually quite pleasant. I'm an ex MS employee, and so feel no need to promote it blindly. I do think, overall, it's the best VS yet. Take it for what you will.
- unhappyms 17y agoI have been an SDET on VS2010. The real problem with VS in the past few years as it has move away from native. Everything is managed managed managed! We have left internal (Office) and external (lots and lots of folks) customers in the dust by only building decent managed tools. That's my opinion. What I really wanted to address was performance. There was indeed a huge push after Beta2 to improve perf. At the end of the day 2010 is still slower than 2008 and eats up more memory. I guess that's an accomplishment if sucking less is considered good. But will people upgrade? I don't know. Hopefully because that's good for me. But I am pessimistic and currently looking for other employment as the experience was that bad. Why was it so bad? Well I feel most of the pain points could have been avoided. Management ignored a lot of the performance/memory issues last summer and had an attitude of ship ship ship with NO regard for quality. I was responsible for reporting an overall grade for the areas I tested. I reported them to be poor and fair. I also listed all the known bugs in those areas. Management boosted the rating to good on the basis that memory and performance bugs don't count. Let me reemphasize that last point: I was told memory and performance bugs DID NOT count towards the overall quality rating of the product. This was management's attitude through most of the product cycle. We could never give an honest assessment of the product because they would challenge it and argue that it wasn't that bad. I believe their reason was simple for doing this. They need to take the data to their managers and up the chain of command to paint a pretty picture of how great the product is. Even if that's an illusion. Basically telling the truth of product quality is punished. If I lied about quality managers would be ecstatic about how a great a job we did. If I told the truth about quality instead of thanking me for figuring out where customer pain points might be the attitude was ALWAYS this should have been found earlier. The problem is many times I did find it earlier and they did their best to bury it before the next meeting they were heading off too report product quality. I will say this. IntelliSense is much better for C++. Even though other native tools might suck. IntelliSense teams seems to be doing a pretty good job. It has always has been my favorite VS feature.
- natmaster 17y agoI don't know what IDE you use, but I use both Visual Studio and Eclipse. Eclipse is significantly slower, but it's still acceptable performance, and I like the python, hg, and remote plugins, so I find it very useful. For C#, VS is absolutely wonderful, and I haven't seen an IDE for a statically typed language I like better.
- snprbob86 17y agoI greatly prefer C# over Java. Luckily, JetBrain's Resharper makes VS almost as awesome as IDEA.