7 ms·

If humanity lasts, in about a billion years the Earth will be no longer be in the Sun's habitable zone. Might as well start preparing from now.

AndrewKemendo 10y ago
Better (probably easier too) to start transitioning humans to a different being. Make the merge with AGI and move out of traditional biology.
- yazaddaruvala 10y ago
  For the last few years, I've been telling people I believe I'd live forever, and they always ask me why I'd want to. I don't have a great reason (lets not make this about that). Point of story, entropy in our universe will eventually cause its end, and I don't want to die then either. Ideally, before the cold death of the universe, I want to transition my body into a higher dimensional body. So I'm entirely in support of your argument. However, digitizing our brains, or any other transition away from the status quo right now is not only not currently possible, it is currently unimaginable. There have been no prototypes, no significant research, not even any real theories on how to accomplish such a task. Even repairing/repurposing parts of our current bodies is a giant challenge. Hell, we can't even appropriately map our biology or understand how they actually work. Transitioning away from biology will take time. However, until that day, we need to stay alive and we need more resources. Becoming multi-planetary is just one "safe"(predictable) step towards the future you would prefer.
  - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
    Well, no time like the present to start working on it then! So maybe instead of sinking billions into a dead-end. We put billions into AGI. I know that's what I'm doing.
  - shiny 10y ago
    I've often thought about this... is it really possible to live forever? Or does entropy (along with other factors like the accelerating rate of expansion of the universe) demand that at some point it'll all come to an end, regardless of how smart our AI offspring eventually become?
    - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
      You're right that our universe will come to an end. However, for me, entropy isn't a show stopper. Its just a resource time bomb waiting to be diffused, or run away from. At a "smaller" scale, - Previously, our rivers have dried, and our crops turned to dust. - Our planet will eventually run out of resources. - Our solar system will eventually get consumed by the sun. - Our galaxy will eventually shrink into its central singularity. Whenever we come across a resource time bomb, the final option has always been and will always been to migrate away. The only question has been, "where should we go?". But aren't there potentially: - infinite parallel universes? - infinite higher dimensions? - infinite recursive simulations? However, infinite sounds like a lot, and maybe there are only a finite number of each of the above, but I don't think it'll matter. We can't keep beating time. Eventually the entropy time bomb will go off before we are able to solve its riddle. The only thing I want, is that before that day comes, I want to have beaten it a few times. Shown entropy who its master is. Because on that day, I want to be happy for my long time advisory and proud to have been the master of time, even if the student finally surpassed the master and has gotten its long deserved win.
      - shiny 10y ago
        > the final option has always been and will always been to migrate away That's why I brought up the accelerating rate of expansion of space ... everything will be moving away from us so quickly that eventually we'll run out of places to migrate to.
- andars 10y ago
  I don't believe that AGI and transhumanism is any easier (or better, but I accept your opinion) than making a spacecraft that can carry people to Mars. The task is well understood, unlike artifical intelligence.
  - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
    AGI solves the existential problem better than just moving people. If you can bundle intelligence on an SSD (metaphorically) you can send that outside of the solar system.
    - andars 10y ago
      We have, to a good approximation, no clue how human biology achieves intelligence. I'd say it is far more realizable to go to Mars than to put a brain in a flash drive. Even if we achieve AGI, that isn't (necessarily) a human intelligence.
  - goatlover 10y ago
    Getting people to Mars is the easy part. Making Mars sustainable is a lot more difficult.
  - im_dario 10y ago
    We have lots of brains in this planet. We can work in both efforts or even more than these two. There is no point in arguing which one is easier. Feasibility and difficulty shouldn't be reasons for discarding long term efforts. Many current ideas were seen as impossible or extremely difficult.
    - andars 10y ago
      I agree. I also noted in another comment that these things aren't mutually exclusive. Rather than "why try any of these things?", we should ask "why not try all?"
- ythl 10y ago
  There we go, we've now gone full sci-fi
M_Grey 10y ago
Lets survive the next few hundred years a species first, eh? We have a long way to go to make that happen, and a big part of it definitely involves mastering travel around and mining of our solar system. It probably doesn't involve the expense and resources of major colonization efforts though, barring truly enormous breakthroughs in materials science, energy production and storage. Lets focus on that, since without those factors a billion years will just find the raccoons or squid that replaced us facing the same problem.
- JBReefer 10y ago
  You're underestimating humanity. You're talking about a species that walked from Ethiopia to Tierra Del Fuego, and then a blink of time later landed on the Moon. We're the top predator in the planet, and we got there in less than 20,000 years. We'll be fine.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    That attitude is an enormous part of why we won't be fine, and haven't been for a while

AndrewKemendo 10y ago

Better (probably easier too) to start transitioning humans to a different being. Make the merge with AGI and move out of traditional biology.

yazaddaruvala 10y ago
For the last few years, I've been telling people I believe I'd live forever, and they always ask me why I'd want to. I don't have a great reason (lets not make this about that). Point of story, entropy in our universe will eventually cause its end, and I don't want to die then either. Ideally, before the cold death of the universe, I want to transition my body into a higher dimensional body. So I'm entirely in support of your argument. However, digitizing our brains, or any other transition away from the status quo right now is not only not currently possible, it is currently unimaginable. There have been no prototypes, no significant research, not even any real theories on how to accomplish such a task. Even repairing/repurposing parts of our current bodies is a giant challenge. Hell, we can't even appropriately map our biology or understand how they actually work. Transitioning away from biology will take time. However, until that day, we need to stay alive and we need more resources. Becoming multi-planetary is just one "safe"(predictable) step towards the future you would prefer.
- AndrewKemendo 10y ago
  Well, no time like the present to start working on it then! So maybe instead of sinking billions into a dead-end. We put billions into AGI. I know that's what I'm doing.
- shiny 10y ago
  I've often thought about this... is it really possible to live forever? Or does entropy (along with other factors like the accelerating rate of expansion of the universe) demand that at some point it'll all come to an end, regardless of how smart our AI offspring eventually become?
  - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
    You're right that our universe will come to an end. However, for me, entropy isn't a show stopper. Its just a resource time bomb waiting to be diffused, or run away from. At a "smaller" scale, - Previously, our rivers have dried, and our crops turned to dust. - Our planet will eventually run out of resources. - Our solar system will eventually get consumed by the sun. - Our galaxy will eventually shrink into its central singularity. Whenever we come across a resource time bomb, the final option has always been and will always been to migrate away. The only question has been, "where should we go?". But aren't there potentially: - infinite parallel universes? - infinite higher dimensions? - infinite recursive simulations? However, infinite sounds like a lot, and maybe there are only a finite number of each of the above, but I don't think it'll matter. We can't keep beating time. Eventually the entropy time bomb will go off before we are able to solve its riddle. The only thing I want, is that before that day comes, I want to have beaten it a few times. Shown entropy who its master is. Because on that day, I want to be happy for my long time advisory and proud to have been the master of time, even if the student finally surpassed the master and has gotten its long deserved win.
    - shiny 10y ago
      > the final option has always been and will always been to migrate away That's why I brought up the accelerating rate of expansion of space ... everything will be moving away from us so quickly that eventually we'll run out of places to migrate to.
andars 10y ago
I don't believe that AGI and transhumanism is any easier (or better, but I accept your opinion) than making a spacecraft that can carry people to Mars. The task is well understood, unlike artifical intelligence.
- AndrewKemendo 10y ago
  AGI solves the existential problem better than just moving people. If you can bundle intelligence on an SSD (metaphorically) you can send that outside of the solar system.
  - andars 10y ago
    We have, to a good approximation, no clue how human biology achieves intelligence. I'd say it is far more realizable to go to Mars than to put a brain in a flash drive. Even if we achieve AGI, that isn't (necessarily) a human intelligence.
- goatlover 10y ago
  Getting people to Mars is the easy part. Making Mars sustainable is a lot more difficult.
- im_dario 10y ago
  We have lots of brains in this planet. We can work in both efforts or even more than these two. There is no point in arguing which one is easier. Feasibility and difficulty shouldn't be reasons for discarding long term efforts. Many current ideas were seen as impossible or extremely difficult.
  - andars 10y ago
    I agree. I also noted in another comment that these things aren't mutually exclusive. Rather than "why try any of these things?", we should ask "why not try all?"
ythl 10y ago
There we go, we've now gone full sci-fi

M_Grey 10y ago

Lets survive the next few hundred years a species first, eh? We have a long way to go to make that happen, and a big part of it definitely involves mastering travel around and mining of our solar system. It probably doesn't involve the expense and resources of major colonization efforts though, barring truly enormous breakthroughs in materials science, energy production and storage. Lets focus on that, since without those factors a billion years will just find the raccoons or squid that replaced us facing the same problem.

JBReefer 10y ago
You're underestimating humanity. You're talking about a species that walked from Ethiopia to Tierra Del Fuego, and then a blink of time later landed on the Moon. We're the top predator in the planet, and we got there in less than 20,000 years. We'll be fine.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  That attitude is an enormous part of why we won't be fine, and haven't been for a while