6 ms·

> I recently spent a couple of months writing and reading as badly as possible, a practice I now recommend. Reminds me of author Jim Butcher's claim that he wr

by mundo 10y ago

> I recently spent a couple of months writing and reading as badly as possible, a practice I now recommend. Reminds me of author Jim Butcher's claim that he wrote the first volume of the _Dresden Files_, "as if I was some kind of formulaic, genre writing drone, just to prove to (his writing teacher) how awful it would be". source: A Conversation With Jim Butcher: http://www.sfsite.com/08b/jb182.htm http://www.sfsite.com/08b/jb182.htm

defen 10y ago
I haven't read any of them, so my questions come from a place of ignorance, but isn't the Dresden Files series considered good, at least by the standards of pop sci-fi / fantasy? It's at least popular enough to have generated 15 books. So I guess my questions are: is it actually considered good? If so, is the first book bad? How did it become popular if the first book is bad?
- in_the_sticks 10y ago
  > How did it become popular if the first book is bad? (Speaking as someone who also has not read the books) This reminds me of disumbrationist[0] art. I wonder if something like that could be at play. [0] http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_disumbrationist_school_of_art http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_disumbrationist_scho...
- evmar 10y ago
  I read one in the series because of that good reputation. I can confirm that it wasn't good -- formulaic and kind of boring. In retrospect it almost felt like a parody of the genre. (I was reminded of the prolific fantasy author character in Neal Stephenson's REAMDE.)
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    It gets better as time goes on.
  - sethammons 10y ago
    I read the first one and thought it was dull. I would not have read the second, but I had it on hand. It started to perk my attention. Enjoyed it. After three, I was hooked.
- mundo 10y ago
  I didn't care for it much - it seemed like something aimed towards young adult readers more than adults - but it's light-hearted, has magic spells and PG sex scenes, and you can easily read it on a plane flight.
  - gohrt 10y ago
    What's wrong with light-hearted easy reading for adults?
    - mundo 10y ago
      Nothing! But I was surprised that _Dresden Files_ was aimed at adults. I thought the first Harry Potter book was more complex, both in plot and writing style.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        How far in did you read? It get better as you go, although it's still simple fantasy at heart. The first few books were not all that good, and I'd say the series really hits its stride around Death Masks, and gets better from there. If you're looking for something a bit heavier and more complex, might I recommend Charles Stross's The Laundry Files? I'd say they're The Dresden Files' darker cousin. In fact, the protagonist of the former is a confirmed fan of the ladder.
        mundo 10y ago
        Just the one book, I had heard the series improves, but there's too much other good stuff out there. Also, I really didn't like the protagonist, he seems too obviously to be a thinly-veiled idealized version of the author. He might as well have named the main character Bim Jutcher.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Harry isn't perfect, but sometimes he could do with a few more flaws. I never saw him as an idealization of the author, but it's not an invalid idea. All of these issues are especially apparent in the early books. Once again, I recommend The Laundry Files, if you're looking for something a bit darker, and a bit stronger written (it still starts a bit weak, but not to the same degree...).
- gohrt 10y ago
  It's bubble gum pop, the sort of thing that is immensely popular across all media, but not the best, and easy to sneer at. Quite different from "awful", which would be something like Eragon.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    Everything's easy to sneer at if you've got enough of a lip. It's not paint-by-numbers in the later books, it actually has effort put into it, and it's quite a fun read. Then again, I liked Eragon when I read it. Then again, then again, I was in third grade at the time, so I think I've got an excuse.
- david-given 10y ago
  They're great fun, but not great literature. Big explosions, chases, larger-than-life characters with interesting quirks but little nuance (although he gets better), edge-of-your-seat world-in-peril type stuff. I know plenty of people who love them, including myself. They suffer fairly badly from Lensman Arms Race, so by about two-thirds of the way through the series Dresden and his friends are now so ridiculously powerful that you can tell Butcher's having a hard time coming up with decent a threats for them to vanquish in the each book. Basically: above average pulp urban fantasy. Edit: There's a TV series, fairly loosely based on the first few books. I rather liked it. I know plenty of people who didn't.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    Exactly. And totally Lensman Arms Race. Although it takes on an interesting tone around Changes. Not enough to stop it from being a problem, but enough to keep things interesting until there's an inevitable solution (unless there isn't). As for the TV series, I liked it, but I wish they'd kept some of the characters from the books: They significantly altered Bob's personality (although that's understandable), and totally cut Thomas, as well as Michael and the rest of the Carpenters. I also wish we'd been able to see Nick and The Nickelheads (I'm deliberately speaking in references, so as not to spoil), although the fact that we didn't is understandable. But seriously, what happened to Thomas? As of Backup, I'd almost say he was my favorite character.
- bsder 10y ago
  > So I guess my questions are: is it actually considered good? By no means. Quite formulaic. Weak writing. > If so, is the first book bad? How did it become popular if the first book is bad? Um, anybody remember "Twilight" or "50 Shades of Grey"? It's possible to be quite popular and yet suck very badly. And, Dresden Files is far from bad. It sets up an interesting set of characters and an interesting universe. Just go into it expecting a swashbuckle rather than high literature, and you will be fine.

by mundo 10y ago

defen 10y ago

I haven't read any of them, so my questions come from a place of ignorance, but isn't the Dresden Files series considered good, at least by the standards of pop sci-fi / fantasy? It's at least popular enough to have generated 15 books. So I guess my questions are: is it actually considered good? If so, is the first book bad? How did it become popular if the first book is bad?

in_the_sticks 10y ago
> How did it become popular if the first book is bad? (Speaking as someone who also has not read the books) This reminds me of disumbrationist[0] art. I wonder if something like that could be at play. [0] http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_disumbrationist_school_of_art http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_disumbrationist_scho...
evmar 10y ago
I read one in the series because of that good reputation. I can confirm that it wasn't good -- formulaic and kind of boring. In retrospect it almost felt like a parody of the genre. (I was reminded of the prolific fantasy author character in Neal Stephenson's REAMDE.)
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  It gets better as time goes on.
- sethammons 10y ago
  I read the first one and thought it was dull. I would not have read the second, but I had it on hand. It started to perk my attention. Enjoyed it. After three, I was hooked.
mundo 10y ago
I didn't care for it much - it seemed like something aimed towards young adult readers more than adults - but it's light-hearted, has magic spells and PG sex scenes, and you can easily read it on a plane flight.
- gohrt 10y ago
  What's wrong with light-hearted easy reading for adults?
  - mundo 10y ago
    Nothing! But I was surprised that _Dresden Files_ was aimed at adults. I thought the first Harry Potter book was more complex, both in plot and writing style.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      How far in did you read? It get better as you go, although it's still simple fantasy at heart. The first few books were not all that good, and I'd say the series really hits its stride around Death Masks, and gets better from there. If you're looking for something a bit heavier and more complex, might I recommend Charles Stross's The Laundry Files? I'd say they're The Dresden Files' darker cousin. In fact, the protagonist of the former is a confirmed fan of the ladder.
      - mundo 10y ago
        Just the one book, I had heard the series improves, but there's too much other good stuff out there. Also, I really didn't like the protagonist, he seems too obviously to be a thinly-veiled idealized version of the author. He might as well have named the main character Bim Jutcher.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Harry isn't perfect, but sometimes he could do with a few more flaws. I never saw him as an idealization of the author, but it's not an invalid idea. All of these issues are especially apparent in the early books. Once again, I recommend The Laundry Files, if you're looking for something a bit darker, and a bit stronger written (it still starts a bit weak, but not to the same degree...).
gohrt 10y ago
It's bubble gum pop, the sort of thing that is immensely popular across all media, but not the best, and easy to sneer at. Quite different from "awful", which would be something like Eragon.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Everything's easy to sneer at if you've got enough of a lip. It's not paint-by-numbers in the later books, it actually has effort put into it, and it's quite a fun read. Then again, I liked Eragon when I read it. Then again, then again, I was in third grade at the time, so I think I've got an excuse.
david-given 10y ago
They're great fun, but not great literature. Big explosions, chases, larger-than-life characters with interesting quirks but little nuance (although he gets better), edge-of-your-seat world-in-peril type stuff. I know plenty of people who love them, including myself. They suffer fairly badly from Lensman Arms Race, so by about two-thirds of the way through the series Dresden and his friends are now so ridiculously powerful that you can tell Butcher's having a hard time coming up with decent a threats for them to vanquish in the each book. Basically: above average pulp urban fantasy. Edit: There's a TV series, fairly loosely based on the first few books. I rather liked it. I know plenty of people who didn't.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Exactly. And totally Lensman Arms Race. Although it takes on an interesting tone around Changes. Not enough to stop it from being a problem, but enough to keep things interesting until there's an inevitable solution (unless there isn't). As for the TV series, I liked it, but I wish they'd kept some of the characters from the books: They significantly altered Bob's personality (although that's understandable), and totally cut Thomas, as well as Michael and the rest of the Carpenters. I also wish we'd been able to see Nick and The Nickelheads (I'm deliberately speaking in references, so as not to spoil), although the fact that we didn't is understandable. But seriously, what happened to Thomas? As of Backup, I'd almost say he was my favorite character.
bsder 10y ago
> So I guess my questions are: is it actually considered good? By no means. Quite formulaic. Weak writing. > If so, is the first book bad? How did it become popular if the first book is bad? Um, anybody remember "Twilight" or "50 Shades of Grey"? It's possible to be quite popular and yet suck very badly. And, Dresden Files is far from bad. It sets up an interesting set of characters and an interesting universe. Just go into it expecting a swashbuckle rather than high literature, and you will be fine.