5 ms·

The curious thing is that patent trolls exist at all because lawyers are so expensive. The reason almost no company can afford to fight patent trolls is because

by izqui 10y ago

The curious thing is that patent trolls exist at all because lawyers are so expensive. The reason almost no company can afford to fight patent trolls is because the legal costs are so expensive. On a related note, I also find it incredible how people can make a living out of these kind of businesses and sleep well at night...

Phemist 10y ago
>> On a related note, I also find it incredible how people can make a living out of these kind of businesses and sleep well at night... What we do is legal, therefore it is not unethical; if it were unethical, it would be illegal.
- Ar-Curunir 10y ago
  Legality != Morality. Some of the NSA surveillance is legal; that does not make it ethical.
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    The word "legal" is sort of meaningless for behavior that is never observed by legal authorities. Also, see irony.
  - 0xfeba 10y ago
    I think that's his point. A better example would be slavery. Since it was legal at some point, was it then ethical?
  - sireat 10y ago
    Depends on your sense of morals, I am sure there are many NSA employees who sleep well at night. Many people follow what I call Godfather's I ethics. Vito Corleone cares about his family and friends and will do rather mean things to those who threaten the well being of those around him. Tribalism has stayed with us over the millennia and is unlikely to go away any time soon.
- izqui 10y ago
  I think your logic is failing there, the fact that something is legal doesn't make it ethical straightaway. You can do unethical things using legal loopholes without it being necessarily illegal.
  - omginternets 10y ago
    That's... exactly his point ...
- hood_syntax 10y ago
  I think people missed the hidden /s in this post.
  - triplesec 10y ago
    If /s means sarcasm and you are correct, then GP is intending the opposite of what they say. That unsignalled irony will be missed by 95% of readers, and is probably ill-advised. I certainly didn't pick up on it, and I'm usually decent at that.
  - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
    Was a bit difficult to pick up on it.
    - Natanael_L 10y ago
      I found it obvious by context. I'm guessing this is a good example of Poe's law.
baldfat 10y ago
Seems like a business opportunity to me. If you can get people who are being sued by these people to buy patent troll insurance and pool the resources you could out resource the Patient Troll and make a profit.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  If I remember, that's one of the things Cheng has done. He tries to find companies currently facing threats from the same troll and share costs to drive the price of a suit under the (summed) price of settlement. There's no real way for the defenders to make a profit, since getting damages out of the troll is basically impossible. And unfortunately, that means that even with pooled resources, trolls are purely a drag on the economy. But at least this way, they tend to lose and stop being a drag for the next guy.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    Profit from the defenders! Though that feels dirty
  - intrasight 10y ago
    Losing more frequently than willing could shift the economics away from trolling. Even better would be court sanctions and/or having to pay defendants fees.
    - Bartweiss 10y ago
      Absolutely, and we might be starting to see that - I'm just mad that it's still purely negative for the defenders. Of course, it's hard because paying the opponent's fees opens up other kinds of abuse. If you get sued by Coca Cola, you can't just judge what lawyer you can afford, you have to realize that even a small decision against you could come with the million dollars in costs they paid to take the thing to court. I don't really know a good answer to "litigation is expensive, and that produces abuse". Sanctions or frequent invalidation of patents would be great, though. One other thing I would love to see is a change to the choice-of-venue rules - this would be less of a problem if we weren't seeing every case fought in East Texas where summary judgement is impossible to get.

by izqui 10y ago

Phemist 10y ago

>> On a related note, I also find it incredible how people can make a living out of these kind of businesses and sleep well at night... What we do is legal, therefore it is not unethical; if it were unethical, it would be illegal.

Ar-Curunir 10y ago
Legality != Morality. Some of the NSA surveillance is legal; that does not make it ethical.
- jessaustin 10y ago
  The word "legal" is sort of meaningless for behavior that is never observed by legal authorities. Also, see irony.
- 0xfeba 10y ago
  I think that's his point. A better example would be slavery. Since it was legal at some point, was it then ethical?
- sireat 10y ago
  Depends on your sense of morals, I am sure there are many NSA employees who sleep well at night. Many people follow what I call Godfather's I ethics. Vito Corleone cares about his family and friends and will do rather mean things to those who threaten the well being of those around him. Tribalism has stayed with us over the millennia and is unlikely to go away any time soon.
izqui 10y ago
I think your logic is failing there, the fact that something is legal doesn't make it ethical straightaway. You can do unethical things using legal loopholes without it being necessarily illegal.
- omginternets 10y ago
  That's... exactly his point ...
hood_syntax 10y ago
I think people missed the hidden /s in this post.
- triplesec 10y ago
  If /s means sarcasm and you are correct, then GP is intending the opposite of what they say. That unsignalled irony will be missed by 95% of readers, and is probably ill-advised. I certainly didn't pick up on it, and I'm usually decent at that.
- Ar-Curunir 10y ago
  Was a bit difficult to pick up on it.
  - Natanael_L 10y ago
    I found it obvious by context. I'm guessing this is a good example of Poe's law.

baldfat 10y ago

Seems like a business opportunity to me. If you can get people who are being sued by these people to buy patent troll insurance and pool the resources you could out resource the Patient Troll and make a profit.

Bartweiss 10y ago
If I remember, that's one of the things Cheng has done. He tries to find companies currently facing threats from the same troll and share costs to drive the price of a suit under the (summed) price of settlement. There's no real way for the defenders to make a profit, since getting damages out of the troll is basically impossible. And unfortunately, that means that even with pooled resources, trolls are purely a drag on the economy. But at least this way, they tend to lose and stop being a drag for the next guy.
- baldfat 10y ago
  Profit from the defenders! Though that feels dirty
- intrasight 10y ago
  Losing more frequently than willing could shift the economics away from trolling. Even better would be court sanctions and/or having to pay defendants fees.
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    Absolutely, and we might be starting to see that - I'm just mad that it's still purely negative for the defenders. Of course, it's hard because paying the opponent's fees opens up other kinds of abuse. If you get sued by Coca Cola, you can't just judge what lawyer you can afford, you have to realize that even a small decision against you could come with the million dollars in costs they paid to take the thing to court. I don't really know a good answer to "litigation is expensive, and that produces abuse". Sanctions or frequent invalidation of patents would be great, though. One other thing I would love to see is a change to the choice-of-venue rules - this would be less of a problem if we weren't seeing every case fought in East Texas where summary judgement is impossible to get.