4 ms·

I once got a full refund on a laptop outside of its warranty period because a software update (Windows 8.1) effectively bricked the machine. I demanded it under

by 3chelon 10y ago

I once got a full refund on a laptop outside of its warranty period because a software update (Windows 8.1) effectively bricked the machine. I demanded it under the UK Sale of Goods Act, which states that a product must be fit for purpose, which it clearly no longer was once the automatic update had happened. I do wonder if this can be more broadly applied to consumer products that effectively change their behaviour after a software update. Is it the same product you originally bought? I would contest not. And surely lawyers could have a field day with this one?

jkot 10y ago
It would be interesting to return notebook after 1 year, because you disagree with Windows EULA.
- 3chelon 10y ago
  I can't recall - do you have to agree to the Windows EULA before or after the automatic update?
  - rocqua 10y ago
    You have to agree during the initial setup of a windows machine.
vc4devil 10y ago
The issue is why do people in UK/USA put up with this Orwellian customer control business model? In Asia if a company were to do these things the business would be burnt to the ground, and/or family selling the inferior by design products. ... This is silly, the printer biz has always been 'give away the camera, and take the first born when they need film' You go abroad ASIA and every printer ink or cartridge, as a bladder attached outside where you have an infinite pool of ink/powder for printing, you buy the printer, and walk out the store with the bladder attached. Now only in the USA do they sell the SIM card for the phone by ID, or make it a felony to put free ink or powder in a printer. HP? Canon and all have been doing this for years, but why is it that in USA you still walk out of the store with a boxed printer that has cartridge with a 1/2 life of 10 prints and then the ink/powder costs the same as the original printer? The USA like the Epipen fiasco is FULL retard on screwing people, HP is just on the band-wagon. ... From poor medical care, to Epipen, to all the silly things that USA/UK people put with, its amazing the CORP Fascist government has such willing lemmings to go along with this BS.
- j_m_b 10y ago
  >.. Orwellian customer control business model? When I think of "Orwellian" I think of government control that is forced upon the individual, not simply bad practices of a few players in a single industry. Of course someone could just buy another make of printer. It's not like they have no other choice, lots of people suggested Brother printers as good alternatives when this story first made the rounds. They could make prints at an office supply company or even their local library.
  - zimbatm 10y ago
    Government control like DMCA is very much put in place by big corporations trough the corruption of congress. I'm not saying the control is total but we're certainly getting there. Even if there are alternatives today they are getting slowly stripped away through more regulation and reallocation of funding. It's not a far stretch to entertain the view that we're under Orwellian control.
    - TheRealPomax 10y ago
      That does not make the term apply to this situation. Orwellian is strictly about the relationship between the people and the government. It's a good term, great to use, but not applicable in this case. Here, HP is allowed to exploit the rules of the free market in a way that is both wasteful and unethical, but legal. Not because of Orwellian practices (we are not told by the government to use HP unquestionably) but rather quite the opposite: the government is in fact explicitly NOT allowed to formalise the ethics here through law. Any kind of governmental regulation here is seen as "the government interfering with the free market", and as idiotic as that claim is, it seems deeply entrenched in the thought patterns of those who can influence the legal landsdcape.
- kijin 10y ago
  Someone I know recently bought an HP DeskJet GT 5820, which has a "bladder" built into it. The package included 4 full bottles of ink, ~60cc for each color. That's enough ink to print thousands of pages, and I don't think the printer even has any way to detect whether it's been refilled with genuine HP ink. You just open the top and squeeze ink into one of the four color-coded tanks. The whole package, including more than half a pint of ink, came in at around $200. But it's Asia here, so I don't know if the same model is available in the States. Maybe HP will sue you if you try to import it, like what happened to that Asian kid who tried to import cheap textbooks. Meanwhile, my HP LaserJet 1022n has been going strong for 10 years now, and 4 of those years have been with $10 recycled toner cartridges from a local seller. I'm not sure whether HP even has the ability to brick my printer if they knew what I was doing, because I haven't seen a driver update for ages, let alone a firmware update. So yeah, maybe HP does crappy things only in countries where they can legally get away with it. Stop letting them get away with it.

by 3chelon 10y ago

jkot 10y ago

It would be interesting to return notebook after 1 year, because you disagree with Windows EULA.

3chelon 10y ago
I can't recall - do you have to agree to the Windows EULA before or after the automatic update?
- rocqua 10y ago
  You have to agree during the initial setup of a windows machine.

vc4devil 10y ago

The issue is why do people in UK/USA put up with this Orwellian customer control business model? In Asia if a company were to do these things the business would be burnt to the ground, and/or family selling the inferior by design products. ... This is silly, the printer biz has always been 'give away the camera, and take the first born when they need film' You go abroad ASIA and every printer ink or cartridge, as a bladder attached outside where you have an infinite pool of ink/powder for printing, you buy the printer, and walk out the store with the bladder attached. Now only in the USA do they sell the SIM card for the phone by ID, or make it a felony to put free ink or powder in a printer. HP? Canon and all have been doing this for years, but why is it that in USA you still walk out of the store with a boxed printer that has cartridge with a 1/2 life of 10 prints and then the ink/powder costs the same as the original printer? The USA like the Epipen fiasco is FULL retard on screwing people, HP is just on the band-wagon. ... From poor medical care, to Epipen, to all the silly things that USA/UK people put with, its amazing the CORP Fascist government has such willing lemmings to go along with this BS.

j_m_b 10y ago
>.. Orwellian customer control business model? When I think of "Orwellian" I think of government control that is forced upon the individual, not simply bad practices of a few players in a single industry. Of course someone could just buy another make of printer. It's not like they have no other choice, lots of people suggested Brother printers as good alternatives when this story first made the rounds. They could make prints at an office supply company or even their local library.
- zimbatm 10y ago
  Government control like DMCA is very much put in place by big corporations trough the corruption of congress. I'm not saying the control is total but we're certainly getting there. Even if there are alternatives today they are getting slowly stripped away through more regulation and reallocation of funding. It's not a far stretch to entertain the view that we're under Orwellian control.
  - TheRealPomax 10y ago
    That does not make the term apply to this situation. Orwellian is strictly about the relationship between the people and the government. It's a good term, great to use, but not applicable in this case. Here, HP is allowed to exploit the rules of the free market in a way that is both wasteful and unethical, but legal. Not because of Orwellian practices (we are not told by the government to use HP unquestionably) but rather quite the opposite: the government is in fact explicitly NOT allowed to formalise the ethics here through law. Any kind of governmental regulation here is seen as "the government interfering with the free market", and as idiotic as that claim is, it seems deeply entrenched in the thought patterns of those who can influence the legal landsdcape.
kijin 10y ago
Someone I know recently bought an HP DeskJet GT 5820, which has a "bladder" built into it. The package included 4 full bottles of ink, ~60cc for each color. That's enough ink to print thousands of pages, and I don't think the printer even has any way to detect whether it's been refilled with genuine HP ink. You just open the top and squeeze ink into one of the four color-coded tanks. The whole package, including more than half a pint of ink, came in at around $200. But it's Asia here, so I don't know if the same model is available in the States. Maybe HP will sue you if you try to import it, like what happened to that Asian kid who tried to import cheap textbooks. Meanwhile, my HP LaserJet 1022n has been going strong for 10 years now, and 4 of those years have been with $10 recycled toner cartridges from a local seller. I'm not sure whether HP even has the ability to brick my printer if they knew what I was doing, because I haven't seen a driver update for ages, let alone a firmware update. So yeah, maybe HP does crappy things only in countries where they can legally get away with it. Stop letting them get away with it.