16 ms·

I'm a big supporter of GNU/Linux on the phone. I don't care if Jolla or Ubuntu don't ever make it as "major" players in the mobile OS world. I'd be perfectly

by maheart 10y ago

I'm a big supporter of GNU/Linux on the phone. I don't care if Jolla or Ubuntu don't ever make it as "major" players in the mobile OS world. I'd be perfectly happy with GNU/Linux mobile software that's as good as the Linux desktop. I run Linux on my desktop (and laptop), and we're 1% of desktop users. I'd be satisfied with 1% mobile market share. We don't need a billion users, all I want is a hacker-friendly platform, with a good developer community around it (which I think both GNU/Linux on the desktop, and IMO SailfishOS [Jolla] provide).

creshal 10y ago
If only there was any decent hardware for Jolla.
- maheart 10y ago
  If you're not satisfied with the "official" devices (e.g. Jolla 1, Intex Aquafish, or Jolla C [if you were lucky enough]), then there are a number of community ports at varying levels of maturity[1]. Otherwise, there's the possibility that the Fairphone 2 will receive official SailfishOS support. Finally, there's a number of yet unreleased devices with official SailfishOS support[2] [1] https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris [2] https://together.jolla.com/question/136143/wiki-available-devices-running-sailfish-os/ https://together.jolla.com/question/136143/wiki-available-de...
- rihegher 10y ago
  And if only Sailfish OS was open source. https://together.jolla.com/question/80676/request-fully-open-source-sailfish-os/?answer=80678#post-id-80678 https://together.jolla.com/question/80676/request-fully-open...
  - maheart 10y ago
    This is true, and I hope SailfishOS will one day be completely FOSS, but please have a look at the bigger picture. Here's a comment I wrote about the situation on reddit: --- Yes, I'd prefer SailfishOS to be 100% FOSS, but Jolla is helping GNU/Linux establish its roots on the mobile. How is it doing this? * libhybris has opened up a whole new world for GNU/Linux, by allowing programs developed against glibc (i.e. GNU/Linux) to run on top of proprietary Android drivers (i.e. phones). * Jolla puts a lot of development into lipstick, which makes it easier to develop UXs for phones/tablets/other form factors [This involved developing Wayland support] * Jolla have opensourced their browser (Qt5 + Gecko engine) and their office suite (Nokia's Calligra Office work, with a QML interface) * Jolla develops a sychronisation framework (buteo-sync) that can be used for syncing emails, Twitter, CalDav/CardDav, etc (I think Ubuntu Touch might adopt it in the future) * Want to see how much manpower Jolla dedicates to developing FOSS? Look at the number of @jollamobile.com emails here: https://git.merproject.org/groups/mer-core/activity https://git.merproject.org/groups/mer-core/activity * The SailfishOS community has been developing sfdroid. A FOSS application for running Android apps on your GNU/Linux mobile. So while SailfishOS isn't 100% open source, it's doing a lot of good for the GNU/Linux community on the mobile.
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  The Fairphone 2 has decent* hardware specs[1] and it can run SailfishOS[2]. * approx. the same as OnePlus One, which partially[3] supports sailfish as well [1] - https://shop.fairphone.com/en/ https://shop.fairphone.com/en/ [2] - https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_fp2 https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Insta... [3] - https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris
teekert 10y ago
True true, I'm craving the day Ubnut Phone runs on my OnePlus 3. But I also used an loved Window Phone (so smooth, so intuitive and beautiful)... But the lack of apps kills you. Start with being able to run APKs, go from there please.
- reddotX 10y ago
  a port for OP3 is currently under development https://devices.ubports.com/#/op3 https://devices.ubports.com/#/op3
kbart 10y ago
Yes, I sure hope we can use GNU/Linux on phone one day. It wouldn't be that hard to make, given an unlocked hardware platform and open source drivers for baseband and graphics module. Actually, I have done a device very similar to smartphone in its hardware capabilities, but it was a commercial product limited in functionality. If I could get such hardware at home, I would definitely make some crude, hackish GNU/Linux smartphone.
- maheart 10y ago
  Right now, thanks to libhybris[1] you can run glibc compiled systems (i.e. regular Linux, aka GNU/Linux) on top of proprietary Android drivers. [1] https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris
  - voltagex_ 10y ago
    I'd pay for a tutorial that shows how to use libhybris to accomplish that.
vbezhenar 10y ago
What's wrong with Android as a hacker-friendly platform?
- maheart 10y ago
  Android (and Apple) have a relatively rigid development toolkit. For Android you develop using the Java programming language against the Android APIs. The NDK is available, and you can always hack up methods to call the Android APIs from your favourite programming language (e.g. Python) but it's cumbersome. I develop software for SailfishOS. It's like the Linux desktop. I SSH into my phone. zypper/pkcon install some dev tools (e.g. gcc, make, git). I initialise a Python virtualenv, pull down some libraries (e.g. Flask). I want to query SMS messages? I open an sqlite database on the filesystem. I can define services using systemd files. It really is "just Linux" underneath.
  - zerr 10y ago
    Very interesting! Do you work at Jolla or are there any 3rd party jobs?
    - maheart 10y ago
      I do not work for Jolla. I am in no way affiliated with Jolla, other than being part of the Jolla/SailfishOS/Maemo/Meego community. I try to support SailfishOS development (by buying Jolla devices, developing software for the platform and evangelizing its benefits). The paid ecosystem around SailfishOS is non-existent, having said that Jolla are looking to hire: http://jolla.com/jobs http://jolla.com/jobs
      - zerr 10y ago
        Yes, but AFAIK they don't hire remotely, at least for engineering jobs.
  - chatmasta 10y ago
    You can do most of that on a jailbroken iOS device as well. It even has launchd which you configure similarly to systemd files.
runn1ng 10y ago
Ideologically, I like Replicant. Actually free-as-in-freedom version of Android, great! In reality though, it doesn't really work on most of modern phones, and on the ones it works on, there is no WiFi support. And the latest commit on the Replicant git (excluding website changes) is 8 months ago. And it has just one guy committing. So it didn't catch world's attention, apparently.
- mikegerwitz 10y ago
  The Replicant project wrote a post in August describing work on Replicant 6: http://blog.replicant.us/2016/08/replicant-6-early-work-upstream-work-and-f-droid-issue/ http://blog.replicant.us/2016/08/replicant-6-early-work-upst... My phone (Galaxy S3) uses Replicant, and I'm quite excited for the upgrade, which will fix a number of rather unfortunate issues. I'm more than willing to make such sacrifices, but it'd be nice (for example) to be able to take videos of my children, which the current version cannot do. It's not a shortcoming of Replicant---the fact that these issues exist at all demonstrate how much value is placed on user freedom. Most unfortunate is that few users will be willing to make these sacrifices.
  - runn1ng 10y ago
    Yeah. But again, it doesn't seem like there is a huge and vibrant developer community inspecting the code, implementing features and fixing bugs; looking at their gitlab and their redmine, it seems like there is almost no activity. (It's possible I just don't understand the websites; looking at their GitLab and Redmine, I start to understand why is Github so popular; I cannot find anything there :(( )
bwindels 10y ago
The fairphone 2 is "fairly" hacker-friendly. The bootloader is not locked. They provide android stripped of google mobile services, and Ubuntu phone is reportedly 70% ported. Sailfish OS could also be an option if either Fairphone or Jolla port it. All of these setups still require binary blobs for firmware, but that's as good as it gets on mobile I think.
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  > Sailfish OS could also be an option if either Fairphone or Jolla port it. It seems to have already happened[1]. [1] - https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_fp2 https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Insta...
  - skykooler 10y ago
    yes, but it's not an "official" image yet, meaning it won't receive support from the Jolla developers (and is missing some things like the Android app compatibility layer)
- compuguy 10y ago
  When they release a version of it with US 3G/4G bands, it would be an option.
skrowl 10y ago
Android is Linux on the phone. It's Linux kernel with stuff on top. Check out Replicant. It removes most of the stuff you might find objectionable.
- vegabook 10y ago
  Unfortunately it's also JVM [edit: Java] on the phone.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    It is a fork of the Java language with its own AOT/JIT compiler, nothing to do with a certified JVM.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - vegabook 10y ago
      Larry Ellison doesn't seem to agree with your "nothing to do with [...] JVM" assertion, to the tune of a 9.3 billion USD lawsuit, and indeed Google itself is developing Fuchsia with no java stack at all in it. Moreover, it's not Linux if you have to use a Java API to do anything useful.
      - jsight 10y ago
        The lawsuit was not about the VM.
        vegabook 10y ago
        Look. The gist of the comment is that Android forces you to use java, or at the very least, a java API. You can dance around semantics as much as you like, but it will not change the fact that, unlike Linux, Android is intricately interlinked with java.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
rocky1138 10y ago
If you haven't already, please consider the Pyra. It's a full Linux desktop in a phone-ish format and supports SIM cards for voice calling and text. https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/
- agentdrtran 10y ago
  You suggest using that monstrosity as a phone?
  - jahbrewski 10y ago
    It looks ..worse than the phone I used 8 years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_enV2_(VX9100) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_enV2_(VX9100).
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - rocky1138 10y ago
    Yes, of course. I don't remember the last time I made a voice call, so I don't care at all about that functionality. Really, all I care about is receiving SMS.
    - kleiba 10y ago
      I suppose the concern is more regarding the clunkiness of the design, as in, "it doesn't fit in my jeans pocket", not so much the functionality. Like you say, "phone" today is really just a moniker for "tech device I always carry on me".
      - rocky1138 10y ago
        Yes, this is a concern for most people, but the GameBoy used to fit perfectly into my pockets, so I really don't care.

by maheart 10y ago

creshal 10y ago

If only there was any decent hardware for Jolla.

maheart 10y ago
If you're not satisfied with the "official" devices (e.g. Jolla 1, Intex Aquafish, or Jolla C [if you were lucky enough]), then there are a number of community ports at varying levels of maturity[1]. Otherwise, there's the possibility that the Fairphone 2 will receive official SailfishOS support. Finally, there's a number of yet unreleased devices with official SailfishOS support[2] [1] https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris [2] https://together.jolla.com/question/136143/wiki-available-devices-running-sailfish-os/ https://together.jolla.com/question/136143/wiki-available-de...
rihegher 10y ago
And if only Sailfish OS was open source. https://together.jolla.com/question/80676/request-fully-open-source-sailfish-os/?answer=80678#post-id-80678 https://together.jolla.com/question/80676/request-fully-open...
- maheart 10y ago
  This is true, and I hope SailfishOS will one day be completely FOSS, but please have a look at the bigger picture. Here's a comment I wrote about the situation on reddit: --- Yes, I'd prefer SailfishOS to be 100% FOSS, but Jolla is helping GNU/Linux establish its roots on the mobile. How is it doing this? * libhybris has opened up a whole new world for GNU/Linux, by allowing programs developed against glibc (i.e. GNU/Linux) to run on top of proprietary Android drivers (i.e. phones). * Jolla puts a lot of development into lipstick, which makes it easier to develop UXs for phones/tablets/other form factors [This involved developing Wayland support] * Jolla have opensourced their browser (Qt5 + Gecko engine) and their office suite (Nokia's Calligra Office work, with a QML interface) * Jolla develops a sychronisation framework (buteo-sync) that can be used for syncing emails, Twitter, CalDav/CardDav, etc (I think Ubuntu Touch might adopt it in the future) * Want to see how much manpower Jolla dedicates to developing FOSS? Look at the number of @jollamobile.com emails here: https://git.merproject.org/groups/mer-core/activity https://git.merproject.org/groups/mer-core/activity * The SailfishOS community has been developing sfdroid. A FOSS application for running Android apps on your GNU/Linux mobile. So while SailfishOS isn't 100% open source, it's doing a lot of good for the GNU/Linux community on the mobile.
AsyncAwait 10y ago
The Fairphone 2 has decent* hardware specs[1] and it can run SailfishOS[2]. * approx. the same as OnePlus One, which partially[3] supports sailfish as well [1] - https://shop.fairphone.com/en/ https://shop.fairphone.com/en/ [2] - https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_fp2 https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Insta... [3] - https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris

teekert 10y ago

True true, I'm craving the day Ubnut Phone runs on my OnePlus 3. But I also used an loved Window Phone (so smooth, so intuitive and beautiful)... But the lack of apps kills you. Start with being able to run APKs, go from there please.

reddotX 10y ago
a port for OP3 is currently under development https://devices.ubports.com/#/op3 https://devices.ubports.com/#/op3

kbart 10y ago

Yes, I sure hope we can use GNU/Linux on phone one day. It wouldn't be that hard to make, given an unlocked hardware platform and open source drivers for baseband and graphics module. Actually, I have done a device very similar to smartphone in its hardware capabilities, but it was a commercial product limited in functionality. If I could get such hardware at home, I would definitely make some crude, hackish GNU/Linux smartphone.

maheart 10y ago
Right now, thanks to libhybris[1] you can run glibc compiled systems (i.e. regular Linux, aka GNU/Linux) on top of proprietary Android drivers. [1] https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris
- voltagex_ 10y ago
  I'd pay for a tutorial that shows how to use libhybris to accomplish that.

vbezhenar 10y ago

What's wrong with Android as a hacker-friendly platform?

maheart 10y ago
Android (and Apple) have a relatively rigid development toolkit. For Android you develop using the Java programming language against the Android APIs. The NDK is available, and you can always hack up methods to call the Android APIs from your favourite programming language (e.g. Python) but it's cumbersome. I develop software for SailfishOS. It's like the Linux desktop. I SSH into my phone. zypper/pkcon install some dev tools (e.g. gcc, make, git). I initialise a Python virtualenv, pull down some libraries (e.g. Flask). I want to query SMS messages? I open an sqlite database on the filesystem. I can define services using systemd files. It really is "just Linux" underneath.
- zerr 10y ago
  Very interesting! Do you work at Jolla or are there any 3rd party jobs?
  - maheart 10y ago
    I do not work for Jolla. I am in no way affiliated with Jolla, other than being part of the Jolla/SailfishOS/Maemo/Meego community. I try to support SailfishOS development (by buying Jolla devices, developing software for the platform and evangelizing its benefits). The paid ecosystem around SailfishOS is non-existent, having said that Jolla are looking to hire: http://jolla.com/jobs http://jolla.com/jobs
    - zerr 10y ago
      Yes, but AFAIK they don't hire remotely, at least for engineering jobs.
- chatmasta 10y ago
  You can do most of that on a jailbroken iOS device as well. It even has launchd which you configure similarly to systemd files.

runn1ng 10y ago

Ideologically, I like Replicant. Actually free-as-in-freedom version of Android, great! In reality though, it doesn't really work on most of modern phones, and on the ones it works on, there is no WiFi support. And the latest commit on the Replicant git (excluding website changes) is 8 months ago. And it has just one guy committing. So it didn't catch world's attention, apparently.

mikegerwitz 10y ago
The Replicant project wrote a post in August describing work on Replicant 6: http://blog.replicant.us/2016/08/replicant-6-early-work-upstream-work-and-f-droid-issue/ http://blog.replicant.us/2016/08/replicant-6-early-work-upst... My phone (Galaxy S3) uses Replicant, and I'm quite excited for the upgrade, which will fix a number of rather unfortunate issues. I'm more than willing to make such sacrifices, but it'd be nice (for example) to be able to take videos of my children, which the current version cannot do. It's not a shortcoming of Replicant---the fact that these issues exist at all demonstrate how much value is placed on user freedom. Most unfortunate is that few users will be willing to make these sacrifices.
- runn1ng 10y ago
  Yeah. But again, it doesn't seem like there is a huge and vibrant developer community inspecting the code, implementing features and fixing bugs; looking at their gitlab and their redmine, it seems like there is almost no activity. (It's possible I just don't understand the websites; looking at their GitLab and Redmine, I start to understand why is Github so popular; I cannot find anything there :(( )

bwindels 10y ago

The fairphone 2 is "fairly" hacker-friendly. The bootloader is not locked. They provide android stripped of google mobile services, and Ubuntu phone is reportedly 70% ported. Sailfish OS could also be an option if either Fairphone or Jolla port it. All of these setups still require binary blobs for firmware, but that's as good as it gets on mobile I think.

AsyncAwait 10y ago
> Sailfish OS could also be an option if either Fairphone or Jolla port it. It seems to have already happened[1]. [1] - https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_fp2 https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Insta...
- skykooler 10y ago
  yes, but it's not an "official" image yet, meaning it won't receive support from the Jolla developers (and is missing some things like the Android app compatibility layer)
compuguy 10y ago
When they release a version of it with US 3G/4G bands, it would be an option.

skrowl 10y ago

Android is Linux on the phone. It's Linux kernel with stuff on top. Check out Replicant. It removes most of the stuff you might find objectionable.

vegabook 10y ago
Unfortunately it's also JVM [edit: Java] on the phone.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  It is a fork of the Java language with its own AOT/JIT compiler, nothing to do with a certified JVM.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - vegabook 10y ago
    Larry Ellison doesn't seem to agree with your "nothing to do with [...] JVM" assertion, to the tune of a 9.3 billion USD lawsuit, and indeed Google itself is developing Fuchsia with no java stack at all in it. Moreover, it's not Linux if you have to use a Java API to do anything useful.
    - jsight 10y ago
      The lawsuit was not about the VM.
      - vegabook 10y ago
        Look. The gist of the comment is that Android forces you to use java, or at the very least, a java API. You can dance around semantics as much as you like, but it will not change the fact that, unlike Linux, Android is intricately interlinked with java.
    - pjmlp 10y ago

rocky1138 10y ago

If you haven't already, please consider the Pyra. It's a full Linux desktop in a phone-ish format and supports SIM cards for voice calling and text. https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

agentdrtran 10y ago
You suggest using that monstrosity as a phone?
- jahbrewski 10y ago
  It looks ..worse than the phone I used 8 years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_enV2_(VX9100) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_enV2_(VX9100).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- rocky1138 10y ago
  Yes, of course. I don't remember the last time I made a voice call, so I don't care at all about that functionality. Really, all I care about is receiving SMS.
  - kleiba 10y ago
    I suppose the concern is more regarding the clunkiness of the design, as in, "it doesn't fit in my jeans pocket", not so much the functionality. Like you say, "phone" today is really just a moniker for "tech device I always carry on me".
    - rocky1138 10y ago
      Yes, this is a concern for most people, but the GameBoy used to fit perfectly into my pockets, so I really don't care.