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A major shame that we are moving our technology from open playforms built to empower to walled gardens built to consume. One day maybe it will shift towards som

A major shame that we are moving our technology from open playforms built to empower to walled gardens built to consume. One day maybe it will shift towards something more progressive again.

godzillabrennus 10y ago
The PC world was never really "open" it just didn't have DRM like Apple and Google want to. Are into their walled gardens. The market will force a correction at some point if the value is there for an open platform.
- userbinator 10y ago
  The PC was sure "open"... ever since IBM released the complete schematics and BIOS source code for the PC, XT, and AT. Maybe not in the OSHW/FOSS sense, but it was certainly open enough for tons of clones to flood the market. It's only been getting more closed since then.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    They never released anything, Compaq reversed engineered them. IBM tried to close the PC again with the PS/2 models but it was too late for them.
    - carussell 10y ago
      Compaq, on the other hand, was the first “PC clone” company. It’s a term that sounds rather quaint today. At the time, though, Compaq sent a shudder through the industry. Compaq reverse-engineered the IBM PC BIOS without ever looking at the BIOS code. That was harder than you might think, because IBM actually published the assembly code for the PC BIOS in its technical reference manuals. Compaq was able to prove that its engineers never looked at the code or disassembled the original BIOS to come up with their own. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/57702-hewlettpackard-compaq-a-trip-down-memory-lane http://www.extremetech.com/computing/57702-hewlettpackard-co...
      - Sharlin 10y ago
        So the code was available but certainly not permitted to be used in a competing product without licensing. The BIOS had to be clean-room reverse engineered to legally build PC clones. If anything, the availability of the code made things more difficult for Compaq!
        carussell 10y ago
        Sure, but the conversation is wandering now. The original comment wasn't about Compaq. (It didn't even mention it.) It was about the IBM PC and whether IBM "schematics and BIOS source code". Which they did. And regarding the burden that IBM's choice strained Compaq with, in the overall impact on the industry, any difficulty was by far offset by the benefits. If we're going to focus on BIOSes, for example, the fact that the source code was available certainly helped Phoenix.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        It is not wandering. All computers on those days had such manuals and extension slots. Had Compaq not done a clean room reverse engineering, everyone would have to license from IBM just like in other computer systems and the PC market would never have blossomed as it did. In fact we are just going back to those days in what concerns selling packaged hardware and software as one single product.
        carussell 10y ago
        Geez, can we not do this? Original commenter mentioned IBM's publication of its source code and schematics. You spoke up to dispute that it happened. You took action. As if to call them out and say, "Hey, just as a point of fact, that isn't true". But as a point of fact, it is true. If you have some commentary that focuses on some other market/industry forces that you think were more salient, then fine, let's have that conversation. But don't dispute facts and then try to rewrite the record as if that's not what you did. This is text. We have the conversation on record, you know.
skc 10y ago
The most bizarre thing about this is that geeks now even manage to rationalize this away. That iOS/Apple (of today) are so revered by open-systems loving folks is a little bit counterintuitive.
- nicklaf 10y ago
  Stockholm syndrome.
aikah 10y ago
> A major shame that we are moving our technology from open playforms built to empower to walled gardens built to consume. One day maybe it will shift towards something more progressive again. In order for a solution to be successful it must be good at first place. FirefoxOS wasn't good at first place no matter how open it was.

A major shame that we are moving our technology from open playforms built to empower to walled gardens built to consume. One day maybe it will shift towards something more progressive again.

godzillabrennus 10y ago

The PC world was never really "open" it just didn't have DRM like Apple and Google want to. Are into their walled gardens. The market will force a correction at some point if the value is there for an open platform.

userbinator 10y ago
The PC was sure "open"... ever since IBM released the complete schematics and BIOS source code for the PC, XT, and AT. Maybe not in the OSHW/FOSS sense, but it was certainly open enough for tons of clones to flood the market. It's only been getting more closed since then.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  They never released anything, Compaq reversed engineered them. IBM tried to close the PC again with the PS/2 models but it was too late for them.
  - carussell 10y ago
    Compaq, on the other hand, was the first “PC clone” company. It’s a term that sounds rather quaint today. At the time, though, Compaq sent a shudder through the industry. Compaq reverse-engineered the IBM PC BIOS without ever looking at the BIOS code. That was harder than you might think, because IBM actually published the assembly code for the PC BIOS in its technical reference manuals. Compaq was able to prove that its engineers never looked at the code or disassembled the original BIOS to come up with their own. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/57702-hewlettpackard-compaq-a-trip-down-memory-lane http://www.extremetech.com/computing/57702-hewlettpackard-co...
    - Sharlin 10y ago
      So the code was available but certainly not permitted to be used in a competing product without licensing. The BIOS had to be clean-room reverse engineered to legally build PC clones. If anything, the availability of the code made things more difficult for Compaq!
      - carussell 10y ago
        Sure, but the conversation is wandering now. The original comment wasn't about Compaq. (It didn't even mention it.) It was about the IBM PC and whether IBM "schematics and BIOS source code". Which they did. And regarding the burden that IBM's choice strained Compaq with, in the overall impact on the industry, any difficulty was by far offset by the benefits. If we're going to focus on BIOSes, for example, the fact that the source code was available certainly helped Phoenix.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        It is not wandering. All computers on those days had such manuals and extension slots. Had Compaq not done a clean room reverse engineering, everyone would have to license from IBM just like in other computer systems and the PC market would never have blossomed as it did. In fact we are just going back to those days in what concerns selling packaged hardware and software as one single product.
        carussell 10y ago
        Geez, can we not do this? Original commenter mentioned IBM's publication of its source code and schematics. You spoke up to dispute that it happened. You took action. As if to call them out and say, "Hey, just as a point of fact, that isn't true". But as a point of fact, it is true. If you have some commentary that focuses on some other market/industry forces that you think were more salient, then fine, let's have that conversation. But don't dispute facts and then try to rewrite the record as if that's not what you did. This is text. We have the conversation on record, you know.

skc 10y ago

The most bizarre thing about this is that geeks now even manage to rationalize this away. That iOS/Apple (of today) are so revered by open-systems loving folks is a little bit counterintuitive.

nicklaf 10y ago
Stockholm syndrome.

aikah 10y ago

> A major shame that we are moving our technology from open playforms built to empower to walled gardens built to consume. One day maybe it will shift towards something more progressive again. In order for a solution to be successful it must be good at first place. FirefoxOS wasn't good at first place no matter how open it was.