6 ms·

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

34 points by antouank 10y ago

na85 10y ago
So instead of fixing the holes in their browser, they've just decided to offload responsibility to a VM, hoping the hardware virtualization isn't vulnerable (even though Intel surely cooperates with governments)?
- c0nducktr 10y ago
  What makes you think they're going to stop improving security in the browser itself? It's not an either/or thing, they can do both.
  - patrickmn 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_in_depth_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_in_depth_(computing)
chatmasta 10y ago
Why stop at the browser? Why not do this for every app? And sure, this makes exploiting the desktop from the web more difficult, but only by requiring an additional exploit in the chain. I'm sure there will be vulnerabilities in the virtualization that hackers will pair with edge vulnerabilities. This is a good step so long as they continue to patch browser vulnerabilities at the same pace. But if they use it as a crutch ("oh that vulnerability is no big deal because edge runs in a VM!") then it quickly becomes a problem.
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  Most applications don't have anywhere near the huge Web-facing attack surface that the browser has, and have to do a lot more communication with the host OS than the browser does, so the tradeoff is less worth it. However, I think something like this will be slowly making its way to more applications as time goes on. The browser is just the most obvious first test subject. I'm not really worried about it being used as a crutch. ASLR and stack canaries didn't stop people from fixing application bugs, because people know that no mitigation technique is perfect, and they're supposed to be a last resort if the application fails.
- drinchev 10y ago
  This sounds awfully similar to iOS sandbox mechanism.
  - compsciphd 10y ago
    something like this? https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenix-atc-10/presentation/apiary-easy-use-desktop-application-fault-containment-commodit https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenix-atc-10/presentation...
NietTim 10y ago
Ah. My mom, and her underperforming laptop, which was forced to upgrade to windows 10 by pop ups which you could not just click away, will absolutely love that.
blub 10y ago
This seems to be the only reasonable way to avoid getting hacked considering how hostile the web has become. NoScript and anti-tracking extensions still have to be disabled to be able to see what amounts to plain text on a significant number of websites. Now we only need a method to protect ourselves from Microsoft's data gathering/spyware that's bundled with the OS.
- Shorel 10y ago
  Not using Windows is a very reasonable way to avoid getting hacked, seems to me. It's been years since I miss something because it only works in Windows.
aNoob7000 10y ago
I wonder if this same technique could be used to protect users using Tor.
oyebenny 10y ago
Doesn't Chrome do this with its own internal sandbox?
lostmsu 10y ago
With VT-* and now apps running in VMs, how is it different from Ring 0/everything else separation?

34 points by antouank 10y ago

na85 10y ago

So instead of fixing the holes in their browser, they've just decided to offload responsibility to a VM, hoping the hardware virtualization isn't vulnerable (even though Intel surely cooperates with governments)?

c0nducktr 10y ago
What makes you think they're going to stop improving security in the browser itself? It's not an either/or thing, they can do both.
- patrickmn 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_in_depth_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_in_depth_(computing)

chatmasta 10y ago

Why stop at the browser? Why not do this for every app? And sure, this makes exploiting the desktop from the web more difficult, but only by requiring an additional exploit in the chain. I'm sure there will be vulnerabilities in the virtualization that hackers will pair with edge vulnerabilities. This is a good step so long as they continue to patch browser vulnerabilities at the same pace. But if they use it as a crutch ("oh that vulnerability is no big deal because edge runs in a VM!") then it quickly becomes a problem.

Analemma_ 10y ago
Most applications don't have anywhere near the huge Web-facing attack surface that the browser has, and have to do a lot more communication with the host OS than the browser does, so the tradeoff is less worth it. However, I think something like this will be slowly making its way to more applications as time goes on. The browser is just the most obvious first test subject. I'm not really worried about it being used as a crutch. ASLR and stack canaries didn't stop people from fixing application bugs, because people know that no mitigation technique is perfect, and they're supposed to be a last resort if the application fails.
drinchev 10y ago
This sounds awfully similar to iOS sandbox mechanism.
- compsciphd 10y ago
  something like this? https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenix-atc-10/presentation/apiary-easy-use-desktop-application-fault-containment-commodit https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenix-atc-10/presentation...

NietTim 10y ago

Ah. My mom, and her underperforming laptop, which was forced to upgrade to windows 10 by pop ups which you could not just click away, will absolutely love that.

blub 10y ago

This seems to be the only reasonable way to avoid getting hacked considering how hostile the web has become. NoScript and anti-tracking extensions still have to be disabled to be able to see what amounts to plain text on a significant number of websites. Now we only need a method to protect ourselves from Microsoft's data gathering/spyware that's bundled with the OS.

Shorel 10y ago
Not using Windows is a very reasonable way to avoid getting hacked, seems to me. It's been years since I miss something because it only works in Windows.

aNoob7000 10y ago

I wonder if this same technique could be used to protect users using Tor.

oyebenny 10y ago

Doesn't Chrome do this with its own internal sandbox?

lostmsu 10y ago

With VT-* and now apps running in VMs, how is it different from Ring 0/everything else separation?