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Don't put words into my mouth - I made zero comment on the morality of the initial action, only on the morality of people who don't clean up after themselves.

by vacri 10y ago

Don't put words into my mouth - I made zero comment on the morality of the initial action, only on the morality of people who don't clean up after themselves. I think that your position that gave rise to the debacle was indeed deplorable, but at the same time, boycotting Mozilla was the wrong thing to do. I didn't support the boycott, because it was striking at people unrelated to the issue at hand. Finally, if you're conducting a specific action on the basis of a moral position, then yes, you are morally obligated to reverse yourself when you win. It's the point of taking a moral position in the first place.

BrendanEich 10y ago
I didn't put words in your mouth. Your words were "If you don't switch back, then you've hurt their cause." Or now, a negative judgment on "the morality of people who don't clean up after themselves." Thanks for writing more about your position. I appreciate that you don't endorse collective punishment. However, I still do not agree with your collective judgment of those who may have boycotted Firefox on account of me for not returning after I left. They could have found other reasons not to switch back, having tried another browser. I heard directly from some people who had exactly that experience. It seems to me we disagree on obligations based on reactions. That's ok, peace. I suggest that cause and effect, action and reaction, are not as simple and Newtonian as you seem to say. Not only might people who left Firefox while I was CEO have found the grass greener -- some might have changed their minds and then become appalled by post-me Mozilla, and not come back on that basis. As with the grass-is-greener cohort, I know a few folks in this category. One example: https://twitter.com/theHirad/status/547588240895528960 https://twitter.com/theHirad/status/547588240895528960. Here is another point of view, but I'm not sure whether a change of mind preceded it: http://jeremiahlee.tumblr.com/post/81652982229/9-quick-thoughts-on-equality http://jeremiahlee.tumblr.com/post/81652982229/9-quick-thoug.... I think such thoughtfulness over time, rather than hurting "their cause", does it individual/piece-wise credit. People are not simple machines, ya know! :-)

by vacri 10y ago

BrendanEich 10y ago

I didn't put words in your mouth. Your words were "If you don't switch back, then you've hurt their cause." Or now, a negative judgment on "the morality of people who don't clean up after themselves." Thanks for writing more about your position. I appreciate that you don't endorse collective punishment. However, I still do not agree with your collective judgment of those who may have boycotted Firefox on account of me for not returning after I left. They could have found other reasons not to switch back, having tried another browser. I heard directly from some people who had exactly that experience. It seems to me we disagree on obligations based on reactions. That's ok, peace. I suggest that cause and effect, action and reaction, are not as simple and Newtonian as you seem to say. Not only might people who left Firefox while I was CEO have found the grass greener -- some might have changed their minds and then become appalled by post-me Mozilla, and not come back on that basis. As with the grass-is-greener cohort, I know a few folks in this category. One example: https://twitter.com/theHirad/status/547588240895528960 https://twitter.com/theHirad/status/547588240895528960. Here is another point of view, but I'm not sure whether a change of mind preceded it: http://jeremiahlee.tumblr.com/post/81652982229/9-quick-thoughts-on-equality http://jeremiahlee.tumblr.com/post/81652982229/9-quick-thoug.... I think such thoughtfulness over time, rather than hurting "their cause", does it individual/piece-wise credit. People are not simple machines, ya know! :-)