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> "He underestimated how much we wanted stuff vs leisure." I'd argue this isn't necessarily a reflection on our personal desires. Whilst I'm sure there are ple

> "He underestimated how much we wanted stuff vs leisure." I'd argue this isn't necessarily a reflection on our personal desires. Whilst I'm sure there are plenty of people who want 'stuff' over leisure, I think there are plenty of other people who would choose a different balance to the one they have now. I'd say the biggest issue blocking this second group is our current work arrangements. If I could I'd choose to work part time or on some form of flexitime (assuming I could earn enough to live on), instead I need to work full time because that's what is on offer and I'm not in a position to push for changes just yet. If people could choose their work hours based on what they needed/wanted, and could afford to work less, I think you'd see a many more people expanding their leisure time than you do now.

Chinjut 10y ago
Yes. I would desperately prefer to take on a job with more leisure time, even with a harsh paycut, and yet, there is almost no way to express that desire within the market as it stands. So I take on a job with far more hours than I'd like, since the alternative is destitution, and then get taken as implicitly supporting the opposite trade-off to what I really want.
grecy 10y ago
If I could I'd choose to work part time or on some form of flexitime (assuming I could earn enough to live on), instead I need to work full time because that's what is on offer and I'm not in a position to push for changes just yet. If you want it badly enough, you will find a way. Make it your top priority. Start applying for other jobs now, and when they make an offer discuss working 4 or 3 days a week for 4/5th or 3/5th of a paycheck. Suggest to your boss you take some unpaid leave (maybe only a week a year to start) and that will help him cut his costs. Take a leave of absence. Find someone to job share with so you both work 1/2 time to get the same job done - make sure you convince your boss it will have no impact on him, and in fact it will be better in case one of you gets seriously ill or something he has backup. There are a thousand ways to achieve your goal. I choose time over stuff, so in the last ~10 years, I've worked about 5. I also spent 2 years driving AK->Argentina, and now I'm doing 2 years around Africa.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "Start applying for other jobs now" Here's the thing. I just started my current job and I'm happy with it for a number of reasons (including the chance to contribute to the health of the charity sector). I'm not afraid to change jobs to do something better, I've done so multiple times before, but I'm not going to jack in a satisfying job just to get a few hours more free time a week. My ideal scenario would be if I could work remotely doing something that benefits the world/humanity and travel at the same time. I see myself as on this path already, just need to wait until the time is right to push for remote work (we have other members of our team that work remotely, so it's not out of the question). All that said, glad you're doing something you enjoy, two years to travel around Africa sounds amazing.
  - grecy 10y ago
    > I'm not going to jack in a satisfying job just to get a few hours more free time a week. There you go then. You're happy as is, so you don't need to change anything! My advice was for someone who said "I want more free time"
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      There may have been some crossed wires. My earlier comments may have indicated that I'm unhappy with my job. My real reason for commenting was to highlight our work arrangements do not always reflect our 'stuff vs. time' preferences. For what it's worth, I would prefer to stay where I'm working and also work fewer hours at this same workplace. So I do want to work less/have more free time, I'm just not prepared to work for any company that doesn't push our society forward to get that. That's why 'quit your job' isn't applicable in my case, I'd rather turn my existing job into something closer to my ideal job.

Chinjut 10y ago

Yes. I would desperately prefer to take on a job with more leisure time, even with a harsh paycut, and yet, there is almost no way to express that desire within the market as it stands. So I take on a job with far more hours than I'd like, since the alternative is destitution, and then get taken as implicitly supporting the opposite trade-off to what I really want.

grecy 10y ago

If I could I'd choose to work part time or on some form of flexitime (assuming I could earn enough to live on), instead I need to work full time because that's what is on offer and I'm not in a position to push for changes just yet. If you want it badly enough, you will find a way. Make it your top priority. Start applying for other jobs now, and when they make an offer discuss working 4 or 3 days a week for 4/5th or 3/5th of a paycheck. Suggest to your boss you take some unpaid leave (maybe only a week a year to start) and that will help him cut his costs. Take a leave of absence. Find someone to job share with so you both work 1/2 time to get the same job done - make sure you convince your boss it will have no impact on him, and in fact it will be better in case one of you gets seriously ill or something he has backup. There are a thousand ways to achieve your goal. I choose time over stuff, so in the last ~10 years, I've worked about 5. I also spent 2 years driving AK->Argentina, and now I'm doing 2 years around Africa.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "Start applying for other jobs now" Here's the thing. I just started my current job and I'm happy with it for a number of reasons (including the chance to contribute to the health of the charity sector). I'm not afraid to change jobs to do something better, I've done so multiple times before, but I'm not going to jack in a satisfying job just to get a few hours more free time a week. My ideal scenario would be if I could work remotely doing something that benefits the world/humanity and travel at the same time. I see myself as on this path already, just need to wait until the time is right to push for remote work (we have other members of our team that work remotely, so it's not out of the question). All that said, glad you're doing something you enjoy, two years to travel around Africa sounds amazing.
- grecy 10y ago
  > I'm not going to jack in a satisfying job just to get a few hours more free time a week. There you go then. You're happy as is, so you don't need to change anything! My advice was for someone who said "I want more free time"
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    There may have been some crossed wires. My earlier comments may have indicated that I'm unhappy with my job. My real reason for commenting was to highlight our work arrangements do not always reflect our 'stuff vs. time' preferences. For what it's worth, I would prefer to stay where I'm working and also work fewer hours at this same workplace. So I do want to work less/have more free time, I'm just not prepared to work for any company that doesn't push our society forward to get that. That's why 'quit your job' isn't applicable in my case, I'd rather turn my existing job into something closer to my ideal job.