4 ms·

And if ratio hired matched ratio applied, then 73% of those hired would have been Asian and they could be accused of discrimination the other way. If the ratio

And if ratio hired matched ratio applied, then 73% of those hired would have been Asian and they could be accused of discrimination the other way. If the ratio of those hired matches the ratio of applicants how does anyone make a complaint of discrimination?

aab0 10y ago
You compare it to the general population. In disparate impact lawsuits, this is the 'applicant' vs 'pool' distinction; the idea is to make it possible to sue even when the discrimination 'barriers' operate before the formal application process, but of course, you wind up in Orwellian games where the necessary number of minority potential-employees simply do not exist and the employer is forced to provide a devil's proof to show they weren't being discriminatory and they argue over what 'proxies' are appropriate... Ward Cove and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_School_District_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_School_District_v._U...
TallGuyShort 10y ago
The same complaint is the basis of sexism in the tech industry. I haven't seen many resumes from women cross my desk. So it's not that I'M being sexist, but clearly there's a problem somewhere. And it could be the way I'm soliciting those resumes in the first place.
- mikeryan 10y ago
  The same complaint is the basis of sexism in the tech industry No it's not. It's in fact the opposite. Sexism is systemic to the point where you're lucky to have 5% of your applicants be female.
  - osmala 10y ago
    Actually, its not that its a personal choice question. There are real differences in what different sexes value. What you choose to spend your free time on? How much you value stability? What you enjoy doing? How risk averse you are? How much you value having more free time? What hobbies you have? There are real differences there between sexes, and those preferences affect what career is the best for you. You don't pick whats average for you, you pick your best career with all things considered, and small differences in preferences can skew the outcomes heavily. Also I like to point out there is bunch of careers where there is heavy shortage of MEN choosing it for same reasons.
  - TallGuyShort 10y ago
    That's exactly what I'm saying. "5% of my employees are female because 5% of my applicants are" does not mean that you've actually done what you can to eliminate bias in your recruiting, marketing, etc.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    You can't point to the "industry" when the industry is composed of individuals with distinct roles. The scope of influence of the average employer, for example, begins with the receiving of applications - they have less control of who chooses to study the subject.
Kadin 10y ago
> If the ratio of those hired matches the ratio of applicants how does anyone make a complaint of discrimination? They'd complain that the company wasn't doing enough to attract resumes from underrepresented groups. That's the usual thing, anyway.

aab0 10y ago

You compare it to the general population. In disparate impact lawsuits, this is the 'applicant' vs 'pool' distinction; the idea is to make it possible to sue even when the discrimination 'barriers' operate before the formal application process, but of course, you wind up in Orwellian games where the necessary number of minority potential-employees simply do not exist and the employer is forced to provide a devil's proof to show they weren't being discriminatory and they argue over what 'proxies' are appropriate... Ward Cove and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_School_District_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_School_District_v._U...

TallGuyShort 10y ago

The same complaint is the basis of sexism in the tech industry. I haven't seen many resumes from women cross my desk. So it's not that I'M being sexist, but clearly there's a problem somewhere. And it could be the way I'm soliciting those resumes in the first place.

mikeryan 10y ago
The same complaint is the basis of sexism in the tech industry No it's not. It's in fact the opposite. Sexism is systemic to the point where you're lucky to have 5% of your applicants be female.
- osmala 10y ago
  Actually, its not that its a personal choice question. There are real differences in what different sexes value. What you choose to spend your free time on? How much you value stability? What you enjoy doing? How risk averse you are? How much you value having more free time? What hobbies you have? There are real differences there between sexes, and those preferences affect what career is the best for you. You don't pick whats average for you, you pick your best career with all things considered, and small differences in preferences can skew the outcomes heavily. Also I like to point out there is bunch of careers where there is heavy shortage of MEN choosing it for same reasons.
- TallGuyShort 10y ago
  That's exactly what I'm saying. "5% of my employees are female because 5% of my applicants are" does not mean that you've actually done what you can to eliminate bias in your recruiting, marketing, etc.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  You can't point to the "industry" when the industry is composed of individuals with distinct roles. The scope of influence of the average employer, for example, begins with the receiving of applications - they have less control of who chooses to study the subject.

Kadin 10y ago

> If the ratio of those hired matches the ratio of applicants how does anyone make a complaint of discrimination? They'd complain that the company wasn't doing enough to attract resumes from underrepresented groups. That's the usual thing, anyway.