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This series is the best thing on HN in a long time. As a software engineer by trade, I feel like I've been missing out not learning more about electrical engine

by rhardih 10y ago

This series is the best thing on HN in a long time. As a software engineer by trade, I feel like I've been missing out not learning more about electrical engineering. The level of knowledge and skill involved in this restoration is downright awe-inspiring.

agumonkey 10y ago
I somehow suffer from the software / hardware split. The more I master the former, the more I need to learn about the latter. This is a good series. Kudos to their dedication and success.
tluyben2 10y ago
If you have the time and interest, get a broken 80s system and a cheap logic analyser. Try to fix it; I learnt most that way. Or get a working and a broken and first analyse the working and then the broken.
- abraae 10y ago
  A PDP-8 is an awesome machine if you want to get into this kind of thing. Not so big you'll need to extend your house. Front panel that will impress your friends. TTL logic that you can debug using a scope, replace dead chips with your soldering iron. Unless you have a problem in the core memory :) As with all old iron there is little point to it but I used to love it.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Agreed, just very hard to get one... C64s are still easy to get. Edit: also I do not think there is little point: it still allows people to get away from the computer as magic. Even though it does not completely compare to a modern system, once you have done this you will never think you system is performing magic or that some coding bug is the universe conspiring against you.
    - ChuckMcM 10y ago
      FWIW I might have an extra PDP-8/m :-)
      - kens 10y ago
        Must...Resist...
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        I have a museum with over 1000 computers from 60-70-80s (oldest is from '62); what you want for it? :)
AdamJacobMuller 10y ago
I am also a software engineer (in part) and I basically agree with everything you say, except, I don't really feel like I'm missing out. I have a huge amount of respect for the people doing this, and it does look like great fun for them to do it and I do enjoy reading about them doing it but the idea of hooking up hundreds of logic probes and analyzing code on a logic analyzer sounds like something that is, personally, a nightmare. But, this is coming from a guy who hasn't picked up a soldering iron without burning himself on it. That said, the EE class I took in college was by far my favorite (and the only one I regularly attended -- before I left), but I was always more entranced by the theoretical than the practical side of it.
grecy 10y ago
At my University (Swinburne, Melbourne, Australia) I studied Software Engineering with a minor in Digital Electronics. They said all along the goal wasn't for us to be as competent as the Electrical/Electronic Engineers, but to teach us their language and the basics so we could work together. It was great. My degree is accredited by the Australian Institute of Engineers.
- ajdlinux 10y ago
  At ANU I took one of our (quite few) digital electronics courses that taught me how to design simple digital logic on FPGAs. It ended up being probably one of my three favourite courses of my degree. I think what I got out of it was similar - I'm obviously not nearly as knowledgeable as a fully fledged electronics engineer, but I have some basic knowledge which allows me to cross the gap between software and hardware and truly appreciate the fact that it is actually possible to get from just having a pile of logic gates to having something resembling a processor. To anyone reading this who's currently a CS major - if you have the opportunity to do a course in digital logic design I'd highly recommend it. Regardless of what layer of the stack you end up working in, it's a lot of fun and very satisfying to understand how this stuff works. If you do end up working fairly low in the stack it's particularly helpful - after uni I ended up working on kernel development at IBM where even though I don't work in hardware engineering I've found it helpful to have some of the background knowledge.
  - ansible 10y ago
    To anyone reading this who's currently a CS major - if you have the opportunity to do a course in digital logic design I'd highly recommend it. Regardless of what layer of the stack you end up working in, it's a lot of fun and very satisfying to understand how this stuff works. Seconded. There wasn't really a Computer Engineering degree back when I was in school, but I made do. As it turned out, some EE classes would qualify for the lab science credit, so I took those instead of more physics or chemistry. I had been fascinated in electronics for a long time before starting college, so I had a blast in those classes. And it has all helped me a lot since then. I'm working on radar systems these days, and it would have been useful to take a little more analog and RF design courses. But those weren't my interest way back then. I've picked up a lot on my own since then though.
linker3000 10y ago
I could do vintage computer and electronics restoration all day...if it paid my bills!

by rhardih 10y ago

agumonkey 10y ago

I somehow suffer from the software / hardware split. The more I master the former, the more I need to learn about the latter. This is a good series. Kudos to their dedication and success.

tluyben2 10y ago

If you have the time and interest, get a broken 80s system and a cheap logic analyser. Try to fix it; I learnt most that way. Or get a working and a broken and first analyse the working and then the broken.

abraae 10y ago
A PDP-8 is an awesome machine if you want to get into this kind of thing. Not so big you'll need to extend your house. Front panel that will impress your friends. TTL logic that you can debug using a scope, replace dead chips with your soldering iron. Unless you have a problem in the core memory :) As with all old iron there is little point to it but I used to love it.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  Agreed, just very hard to get one... C64s are still easy to get. Edit: also I do not think there is little point: it still allows people to get away from the computer as magic. Even though it does not completely compare to a modern system, once you have done this you will never think you system is performing magic or that some coding bug is the universe conspiring against you.
  - ChuckMcM 10y ago
    FWIW I might have an extra PDP-8/m :-)
    - kens 10y ago
      Must...Resist...
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      I have a museum with over 1000 computers from 60-70-80s (oldest is from '62); what you want for it? :)

AdamJacobMuller 10y ago

I am also a software engineer (in part) and I basically agree with everything you say, except, I don't really feel like I'm missing out. I have a huge amount of respect for the people doing this, and it does look like great fun for them to do it and I do enjoy reading about them doing it but the idea of hooking up hundreds of logic probes and analyzing code on a logic analyzer sounds like something that is, personally, a nightmare. But, this is coming from a guy who hasn't picked up a soldering iron without burning himself on it. That said, the EE class I took in college was by far my favorite (and the only one I regularly attended -- before I left), but I was always more entranced by the theoretical than the practical side of it.

grecy 10y ago

At my University (Swinburne, Melbourne, Australia) I studied Software Engineering with a minor in Digital Electronics. They said all along the goal wasn't for us to be as competent as the Electrical/Electronic Engineers, but to teach us their language and the basics so we could work together. It was great. My degree is accredited by the Australian Institute of Engineers.

ajdlinux 10y ago
At ANU I took one of our (quite few) digital electronics courses that taught me how to design simple digital logic on FPGAs. It ended up being probably one of my three favourite courses of my degree. I think what I got out of it was similar - I'm obviously not nearly as knowledgeable as a fully fledged electronics engineer, but I have some basic knowledge which allows me to cross the gap between software and hardware and truly appreciate the fact that it is actually possible to get from just having a pile of logic gates to having something resembling a processor. To anyone reading this who's currently a CS major - if you have the opportunity to do a course in digital logic design I'd highly recommend it. Regardless of what layer of the stack you end up working in, it's a lot of fun and very satisfying to understand how this stuff works. If you do end up working fairly low in the stack it's particularly helpful - after uni I ended up working on kernel development at IBM where even though I don't work in hardware engineering I've found it helpful to have some of the background knowledge.
- ansible 10y ago
  To anyone reading this who's currently a CS major - if you have the opportunity to do a course in digital logic design I'd highly recommend it. Regardless of what layer of the stack you end up working in, it's a lot of fun and very satisfying to understand how this stuff works. Seconded. There wasn't really a Computer Engineering degree back when I was in school, but I made do. As it turned out, some EE classes would qualify for the lab science credit, so I took those instead of more physics or chemistry. I had been fascinated in electronics for a long time before starting college, so I had a blast in those classes. And it has all helped me a lot since then. I'm working on radar systems these days, and it would have been useful to take a little more analog and RF design courses. But those weren't my interest way back then. I've picked up a lot on my own since then though.

linker3000 10y ago

I could do vintage computer and electronics restoration all day...if it paid my bills!