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The Programmer Hierarchy
Especially look at the most superior of all...!
- yters 19y agoWhy do people hate java so much? For its job, it's pretty well designed.
- Hexstream 19y agoOne great way to be hated is to be popular.
- maxwell 19y agoAnother is to be a crappy language. Java is a big platform with a dumb interface; it's the Anti-Lisp. It's a deformity on the programming language tree of life, encasing all those terrible procedural habits and style into another layer of complexity. You have to say everything three or four times. How does anyone put up with it?
- cstejerean 19y agoI've used Java successfully on a number of projects. If you have a good IDE a lot of the fluff is taken care of for you (try writing Lisp in Notepad, it isn't much fun either). I see Java as a good C++ replacement. I refuse to write anything in Java that I wouldn't want to write in C++ (for example I've refused to do web programming in Java).
- apathy 19y agoThere are some fantastic libraries in Java. Your approach to it seems reasonable, although I find myself writing extension modules (for R, PHP, Python, Perl even) in regular old C... not because I particularly dislike C++ or Java, but because if I can get away with just C, it's less likely that I'll step in a template-error or uncaught-exception shitstorm with a 10-page backtrace.
- cstejerean 19y agoThanks for pointing that out. I should have stated this in my comment, but I don't like C++ much (which is why I'd rather use Java over C++). But I absolutely love regular old C. It's a beautiful, simple programming language. I think C is a perfect language for implementing programming languages, libraries and operating system.
- trevelyan 19y agoI quite like C++. Java is a nice language but is absolute hell to develop iterative web applications with at any reasonable speed. You need a sophisticated in-house division of labour to really use it effectively. The real danger of the java language is that it's hostile to lean/agile development. If you're in a market that iterates quickly, that can be a real problem. If you work for a bank... less so.
- cstejerean 19y agoAnd you find C++ easier for developing iterative web applications? Just to make it clear, I will never use Java (or PHP for that matter) to develop web applications.
- procrastitron 19y agoActually, for systems programming (kernels and languages) I would want a language with a strong (preferably static) type system.
- apathy 19y agoThe best ''Java'' theme I have ever seen was the old Perl Journal issue with 'Special Java edition!' on the cover. It a cup of coffee in which damp cigarette butts bobbed about. God I miss TPJ. Say what you like about the language, there has never been a significantly more interesting programming journal (to my knowledge) than TPJ.
- yters 19y agoInteresting factoid: one of the potential languages for Sun's VM was a variant of Scheme. Unfortunately, it lost to Java.
- breily 19y agoI assume its because programming in Java is excruciatingly painful - its syntax just doesn't feel natural and every program is many times longer than a corresponding Python program. Or lisp, I assume.
- tx 19y agoNobody hates Java, it's too generic and plain to generate such strong feelings. People don't care for language, but they do dislike Java Programmers because a big percentage of them, but not all of course, got into CS only due to their neighbor once saying "I hear programmers have no problem finding jobs". The dumbest, least-motivated, non-reading bunch of individuals with engineering titles I've ever known were all Java or VB programmers. The kind who never heard of slashdot let alone reddit or joelonsoftare and use "wizards" to generate SQL queries. Heck, these dudes even call DELL or HP customer support (!) when their home computers stop booting. Moreover, even smarter Java programmers have their issues. Nobody believes in design patters as much as Java people do. They never call new() on anything, they MUST have a factory that creates objects. They produce myriads of code that DOES NOTHING, but encapsulates some other junk that in return also does very little. These dudes can get quite aggressive if you try to point out to them that they never actually do anything but most of their time is spent DESIGNING (oh! they LOVE this word, in fact they don't like to be called programmers, they like to be called architects). I absorbed Java like most of us in college, but I will never go to work in Java shop because the danger of being surrounded by these morons is a lot greater there than anywhere else.
- ardit33 19y agohaha.... ouch. I have to use Java at work (J2ME) and it is not that bad. J2ME is more similiar to java 1.2 and doesn't have the overbloat of the latest versions. But I do agree, especially with the design pattern part. I have a co-worker that loves to boast about his "knowledge" about design patterns, and he is the kind of dev. you described on the second part of your comment.
- cstejerean 19y agoVery well said. If I needed to hire Java programmers I would probably advertise a Python position. This would weed out 90% of the junk candidates.
- jcromartie 19y agoAs long as you tell them that it's actually a Java job as soon as they get in the door... and then you'll weed out another 90% the candidates :)
- staticshock 19y agobecause java is the kingdom of nouns http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom...
- jcromartie 19y agoIt's not that everybody hates Java; it's that nobody loves Java. I'd guess that those who do say "I love Java" probably don't know any other languages. Maybe if the only choices were Visual Basic 5 and Java...?
- deleted 19y ago[deleted]
- run4yourlives 19y agoEven then, it would really depend on what you needed to build.
- brlewis 19y agoIt's job was to provide a gentle path away from C++. I'm not interested in a gentle path away from C++, I just want to write good applications. I don't hate Java though. I can't complain because I do all my Java programming in Scheme.
- deleted 19y ago[deleted]
- Tygerdave 19y agoMy company actually bought the rights to Series 1 assembly from IBM and that's what I use all day. I don't feel superior as this list suggests I should... mainly just tired and pitiable.
- boredguy8 19y agoWhere do you think the sense of superiority comes from? We get to be the "Einsteins" of the programming world: "Do not worry about your problems in programming. I can assure you mine are still greater."
- LogicHoleFlaw 19y agoI prefer to believe that the arrogance and the hackerness are orthogonal traits.
- pchristensen 19y agoThat's what I always hope to be true.
- deleted 19y ago[deleted]
- Xichekolas 19y agoHe needs an arrow from Lisp Programmers to an Erlang Programmers box. Then the Erlang Programmers box needs an arrow to another box with a call to spawn/1 in it that has arrows to everything from Ruby on down...
- sudeepjuvekar 19y agoJava is surely a jack of all trades... might not be a master, but does its job pretty well.. Another interesting blog on languages : http://www.sysprog.net/quotjava.html http://www.sysprog.net/quotjava.html My favorite : "our development cycle is much faster because Java is interpreted. The compile-link-load-test-crash-debug cycle is obsolete. (James Gosling)"
- holygoat 19y agoThat's hilarious. I hope he was intentionally trying to mislead someone... you'd think he'd know better! :)
- jfoutz 19y agoHeh. Java gives you a stack trace. There are a few cases where the jvm is out of memory and can't, but even then you get a lot more information than "bus error" or "segmentation fault".
- jcromartie 19y agoWhat's this nonsense about Ruby being a "web language?" That chart needs a thorough s/Ruby/Rails/g
- brlewis 19y agoGreat, funny diagram. I think a bidirectional arrow between C# and PHP is sorely needed, though.
- dejb 19y agoI think pretty much programmers of every language think they are superior to every other one. The 'dummy' languages think it because of ignorance... or because they earn more money than someone at the same skill/intelligence level on a 'smart' language.
- dejb 19y agoOh yea... and as a perl programmer I consider myself superior to both C (which I've had the misfortune of coding in), Lisp (don't know) and Rudy (sounds nice??).
- andypayne 19y agoAm I the only one who thinks this diagram is too silly to be funny?
- eru 19y agoOh, it's so silly it might be funny again. It's a parody of a parody.