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The people we need to have sympathy/empathy for, though, are the people who haven't gotten there yet. Why though? Isn't sympathy towards people who "haven't g

The people we need to have sympathy/empathy for, though, are the people who haven't gotten there yet. Why though? Isn't sympathy towards people who "haven't gotten there yet" really fucking patronizing? I'm not on this "empathy" bandwagon that has gotten popular in the last few years. It's really good at being unemphatic towards people the group has already decided not to like, so the whole thing reads as a sham. I imagine there was a time for you where you hadn't reached the point of understanding your problem, for any of the various reasons of shame, denial, anger, blaming others, etc. They're adults. I'll treat them with the civility I treat everyone. Beyond that? Fuck 'em.

ivraatiems 10y ago
I'm not sure you understand what sympathy and empathy in this context are, or what the difference between them is. Sympathy is effectively just compassion. False "sympathy" like pity isn't what I'm asking for. Sympathy isn't a bad thing; treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. Empathy is about putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. It's about asking yourself "how would I feel if I had to deal with the things this person deals with?" and then evaluating your answer against that person's behavior until you understand them. Empathy is not a "fad," empathy is a basic human societal construct and a fundamental psychological building block. It's decency. I don't know what bandwagon you refer to, but it's not one I'm aware of or what I'm discussing here. So when I say "treat people with empathy and sympathy," what I am saying is "don't judge them too harshly for not being as capable in this area as you, and think about how it would feel for you if you yourself had to struggle with that incapability." To be frank, I think that that is part of the civility with which we should treat everyone. Admittedly, it's a difficult part and I'm not there 100% myself, but it's valuable.
- forgottenpass 10y ago
  treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. OK, I think we're on the same page. I have no reason to respect that about them and don't.
  - ivraatiems 10y ago
    That means you haven't put in the time to develop a sense of empathy for them. How can you claim to treat all people with basic civility, while at the same time admitting to disrespecting (and thus judging) something about a specific group of people on a mass level without trying to understand it? I think you need to reevaluate how you treat this issue and the people who are affected by it.
    - forgottenpass 10y ago
      How can you claim to treat all people with basic civility Civility, manners and etiquette are to show people you respect them when it isn’t obvious that you respect them – like when you don’t respect them. And just because I don't respect them w/r/t their weight, doesn't mean I can't respect them at all. without trying to understand it? You assume that understanding would imply respect.
- forgottenpass 10y ago
  >Empathy is not a "fad," empathy is a basic human societal construct and a fundamental psychological building block. I agree. But would you not also agree that "empathy" has become quite the buzzword recently? I have a hard time separating "empathy" from "Empathy." And the people peddling "Empathy" seem to think if everyone was empathetic, we'd all come to the same set of conclusions. A very narrow set. I want off this train because I haven't found the right way to retool my lack of respect into the "Empathtic" vocabulary for strong disagreement. I think it involves uses the words "problematic" and "pernicious" quite a lot, but I don't care to find out.

ivraatiems 10y ago

I'm not sure you understand what sympathy and empathy in this context are, or what the difference between them is. Sympathy is effectively just compassion. False "sympathy" like pity isn't what I'm asking for. Sympathy isn't a bad thing; treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. Empathy is about putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. It's about asking yourself "how would I feel if I had to deal with the things this person deals with?" and then evaluating your answer against that person's behavior until you understand them. Empathy is not a "fad," empathy is a basic human societal construct and a fundamental psychological building block. It's decency. I don't know what bandwagon you refer to, but it's not one I'm aware of or what I'm discussing here. So when I say "treat people with empathy and sympathy," what I am saying is "don't judge them too harshly for not being as capable in this area as you, and think about how it would feel for you if you yourself had to struggle with that incapability." To be frank, I think that that is part of the civility with which we should treat everyone. Admittedly, it's a difficult part and I'm not there 100% myself, but it's valuable.

forgottenpass 10y ago
treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. OK, I think we're on the same page. I have no reason to respect that about them and don't.
- ivraatiems 10y ago
  That means you haven't put in the time to develop a sense of empathy for them. How can you claim to treat all people with basic civility, while at the same time admitting to disrespecting (and thus judging) something about a specific group of people on a mass level without trying to understand it? I think you need to reevaluate how you treat this issue and the people who are affected by it.
  - forgottenpass 10y ago
    How can you claim to treat all people with basic civility Civility, manners and etiquette are to show people you respect them when it isn’t obvious that you respect them – like when you don’t respect them. And just because I don't respect them w/r/t their weight, doesn't mean I can't respect them at all. without trying to understand it? You assume that understanding would imply respect.
forgottenpass 10y ago
>Empathy is not a "fad," empathy is a basic human societal construct and a fundamental psychological building block. I agree. But would you not also agree that "empathy" has become quite the buzzword recently? I have a hard time separating "empathy" from "Empathy." And the people peddling "Empathy" seem to think if everyone was empathetic, we'd all come to the same set of conclusions. A very narrow set. I want off this train because I haven't found the right way to retool my lack of respect into the "Empathtic" vocabulary for strong disagreement. I think it involves uses the words "problematic" and "pernicious" quite a lot, but I don't care to find out.