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Don't assume that because it's easy for you to be fit and skinny, it's easy for everyone. I'm neither fit nor skinny. I am empathetic, what I am NOT is sympat

Don't assume that because it's easy for you to be fit and skinny, it's easy for everyone. I'm neither fit nor skinny. I am empathetic, what I am NOT is sympathetic. I have a problem, and I need to fix it. I'm working on it. But even when I'm not, I understand that my health problems are and will be primarily weight related. I actually sort of resent the comparison between "why don't you just cheer up?" and "oh, just lose weight." Everyone understands that weight loss is diet and exercise, even if they've never have to do it. Most people don't understand that depression isn't just an extra long bit of being bummed out, let alone know what the resources a person might need to overcome depression are or how much more complicated it can be. Sure, they both have an initial inertia that needs to be overcome to get started on fixing it, but I'm much more sympathetic to the depressed.

ivraatiems 10y ago
> I actually sort of resent the comparison between "why don't you just cheer up?" and "oh, just lose weight." Everyone understands that weight loss is diet and exercise, even if they've never have to do it. Most people don't understand that depression isn't just an extra long bit of being bummed out, let alone the resources a person might need to overcome depression. > I am empathetic, what I am NOT is sympathetic. I have a problem, and I need to fix it. That's a healthy outlook for you to have. It's the one I have, too. The people we need to have sympathy/empathy for, though, are the people who haven't gotten there yet. I imagine there was a time for you where you hadn't reached the point of understanding your problem, for any of the various reasons of shame, denial, anger, blaming others, etc. There are a lot of people in that boat. What I think commenters here don't understand isn't that weight loss is relatively straightforward, it's that straightforward things aren't always easy, and that preparing oneself to do something difficult is hard, even if that difficult thing has clear steps to take. Given that other people have pointed out the same vagueness in my comparison to depression, maybe it wasn't the best one to make. I will think on a different one for next time. I do think that, given the above, it makes my point though.
- forgottenpass 10y ago
  The people we need to have sympathy/empathy for, though, are the people who haven't gotten there yet. Why though? Isn't sympathy towards people who "haven't gotten there yet" really fucking patronizing? I'm not on this "empathy" bandwagon that has gotten popular in the last few years. It's really good at being unemphatic towards people the group has already decided not to like, so the whole thing reads as a sham. I imagine there was a time for you where you hadn't reached the point of understanding your problem, for any of the various reasons of shame, denial, anger, blaming others, etc. They're adults. I'll treat them with the civility I treat everyone. Beyond that? Fuck 'em.
  - ivraatiems 10y ago
    I'm not sure you understand what sympathy and empathy in this context are, or what the difference between them is. Sympathy is effectively just compassion. False "sympathy" like pity isn't what I'm asking for. Sympathy isn't a bad thing; treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. Empathy is about putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. It's about asking yourself "how would I feel if I had to deal with the things this person deals with?" and then evaluating your answer against that person's behavior until you understand them. Empathy is not a "fad," empathy is a basic human societal construct and a fundamental psychological building block. It's decency. I don't know what bandwagon you refer to, but it's not one I'm aware of or what I'm discussing here. So when I say "treat people with empathy and sympathy," what I am saying is "don't judge them too harshly for not being as capable in this area as you, and think about how it would feel for you if you yourself had to struggle with that incapability." To be frank, I think that that is part of the civility with which we should treat everyone. Admittedly, it's a difficult part and I'm not there 100% myself, but it's valuable.
    - forgottenpass 10y ago
      treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. OK, I think we're on the same page. I have no reason to respect that about them and don't.

ivraatiems 10y ago

> I actually sort of resent the comparison between "why don't you just cheer up?" and "oh, just lose weight." Everyone understands that weight loss is diet and exercise, even if they've never have to do it. Most people don't understand that depression isn't just an extra long bit of being bummed out, let alone the resources a person might need to overcome depression. > I am empathetic, what I am NOT is sympathetic. I have a problem, and I need to fix it. That's a healthy outlook for you to have. It's the one I have, too. The people we need to have sympathy/empathy for, though, are the people who haven't gotten there yet. I imagine there was a time for you where you hadn't reached the point of understanding your problem, for any of the various reasons of shame, denial, anger, blaming others, etc. There are a lot of people in that boat. What I think commenters here don't understand isn't that weight loss is relatively straightforward, it's that straightforward things aren't always easy, and that preparing oneself to do something difficult is hard, even if that difficult thing has clear steps to take. Given that other people have pointed out the same vagueness in my comparison to depression, maybe it wasn't the best one to make. I will think on a different one for next time. I do think that, given the above, it makes my point though.

forgottenpass 10y ago
The people we need to have sympathy/empathy for, though, are the people who haven't gotten there yet. Why though? Isn't sympathy towards people who "haven't gotten there yet" really fucking patronizing? I'm not on this "empathy" bandwagon that has gotten popular in the last few years. It's really good at being unemphatic towards people the group has already decided not to like, so the whole thing reads as a sham. I imagine there was a time for you where you hadn't reached the point of understanding your problem, for any of the various reasons of shame, denial, anger, blaming others, etc. They're adults. I'll treat them with the civility I treat everyone. Beyond that? Fuck 'em.
- ivraatiems 10y ago
  I'm not sure you understand what sympathy and empathy in this context are, or what the difference between them is. Sympathy is effectively just compassion. False "sympathy" like pity isn't what I'm asking for. Sympathy isn't a bad thing; treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. Empathy is about putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. It's about asking yourself "how would I feel if I had to deal with the things this person deals with?" and then evaluating your answer against that person's behavior until you understand them. Empathy is not a "fad," empathy is a basic human societal construct and a fundamental psychological building block. It's decency. I don't know what bandwagon you refer to, but it's not one I'm aware of or what I'm discussing here. So when I say "treat people with empathy and sympathy," what I am saying is "don't judge them too harshly for not being as capable in this area as you, and think about how it would feel for you if you yourself had to struggle with that incapability." To be frank, I think that that is part of the civility with which we should treat everyone. Admittedly, it's a difficult part and I'm not there 100% myself, but it's valuable.
  - forgottenpass 10y ago
    treating someone with sympathy but not also with respect is a bad thing. OK, I think we're on the same page. I have no reason to respect that about them and don't.