3 ms·

Can you give more details on the "some of them are obviously inherited, because the kids are so much like the parents" part? Kids everywhere are so much like t

by euyyn 10y ago

Can you give more details on the "some of them are obviously inherited, because the kids are so much like the parents" part? Kids everywhere are so much like their parents, so the reasoning, as written, is nonsense.

s_kilk 10y ago
(not the person you're replying to) The implication seems to be that the parents also exhibit traits of the autism spectrum, so it's hardly surprising that their kids would do the same.
- euyyn 10y ago
  If it's that, without finer detail, it's also a weak argument. I behave like my mother in many things; doesn't mean I was genetically predisposed to, as plenty of behavior is acquired from the parents.
  - i14ng 10y ago
    If you're saying it could be the autistic behavior is learned rather than genetic, then I agree, you'd need a twin study to rule that out conclusively. However, when people say "the autism epidemic is environmental" they usually mean vaccines or chemicals or something, not "learned from the parents." Despite the quantity of autism research, most of it is quite bad and not that helpful on questions like this.
  - kmonsen 10y ago
    Also you share lots of environmental factors with your mother, like living in the same house, using the same car etc.
    - i14ng 10y ago
      autism isn't adult-acquired though (literally by definition, DSM specifies that it must be present in childhood). So you'd need parent and child to share environmental factors during their respective infancies.
  - gertef 10y ago
    "Inherited" can mean "genetic" or some other method of parent-child transmission (like learning) "Environmental" can include "parenting", but in this case the distinction is between "got it somehow from autistic-leaning parents" vs got from something else. Also, the claim that autism might be somehow learned from parents is extraordinary and not widely claimed or supported by existing evidence. It was a discredited theory of the past though, that "cold" parenting created austism.
scardine 10y ago
Families with one autistic child do have an increased risk of having a second child with the disorder. There are some evidence that hints to genetic factors. For example, we know that boys are at much higher risk than girls, but we don't know why. Similarly, we know that older parents are more likely to have autistic children—but again, we don't know why. See https://www.verywell.com/autism-4014759 https://www.verywell.com/autism-4014759
- kmonsen 10y ago
  This could just as well apply to environmental factors though, siblings probably share those. Also the boy/girl factor could be explained by different behaviors, so different exposures. Not saying I know anything about this, or that this is the case, just that the increased family risk and boy/girl risk doesn't mean it is genetics.
  - dsacco 10y ago
    >>This could just as well apply to environmental factors though, siblings probably share those. That's correct, but looking at concordance rates between monozygotic (identical) and dizygotic (fraternal) twins demonstrates that there is at least a partial genetic connection. Identical twins share the diagnosis in 77% of cases, while fraternal twins only share the diagnosis in 31% of cases.[1] Given that identical twins share more genetic material, the conclusion is that autism has a genetic component to its incidence. That said, most research on the subject, including the paper I'm citing, establishes that there is most likely a dual nature-nurture component. In particular, this study was conducted on twins within the same household, so the genetic component would have been augmented by shared environmental factors. [1]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440679/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440679/
i14ng 10y ago
Kids often share autistic traits with their parents. The parents are either diagnosable themselves or very nearly so. My son is the third or fourth generation to be likely-diagnosable, for example. Currently-middle-aged parents without intellectual disability had almost zero chance of being diagnosed as children, because when we were kids autism was defined such that you usually had to be nonverbal or intellectually disabled to qualify. A very commonly-reported experience is for parents to be diagnosed after their children are diagnosed.
- i14ng 10y ago
  To clarify, I'm not trying to argue definitively that these traits are all genetic vs. acquired by watching one's parents. Perhaps it's some mix, though mostly-genetic seems likely to me. I _am_ trying to say that often the traits run in families, which argues against external causes such as vaccines and chemicals.

by euyyn 10y ago

s_kilk 10y ago

(not the person you're replying to) The implication seems to be that the parents also exhibit traits of the autism spectrum, so it's hardly surprising that their kids would do the same.

euyyn 10y ago
If it's that, without finer detail, it's also a weak argument. I behave like my mother in many things; doesn't mean I was genetically predisposed to, as plenty of behavior is acquired from the parents.
- i14ng 10y ago
  If you're saying it could be the autistic behavior is learned rather than genetic, then I agree, you'd need a twin study to rule that out conclusively. However, when people say "the autism epidemic is environmental" they usually mean vaccines or chemicals or something, not "learned from the parents." Despite the quantity of autism research, most of it is quite bad and not that helpful on questions like this.
- kmonsen 10y ago
  Also you share lots of environmental factors with your mother, like living in the same house, using the same car etc.
  - i14ng 10y ago
    autism isn't adult-acquired though (literally by definition, DSM specifies that it must be present in childhood). So you'd need parent and child to share environmental factors during their respective infancies.
- gertef 10y ago
  "Inherited" can mean "genetic" or some other method of parent-child transmission (like learning) "Environmental" can include "parenting", but in this case the distinction is between "got it somehow from autistic-leaning parents" vs got from something else. Also, the claim that autism might be somehow learned from parents is extraordinary and not widely claimed or supported by existing evidence. It was a discredited theory of the past though, that "cold" parenting created austism.

scardine 10y ago

Families with one autistic child do have an increased risk of having a second child with the disorder. There are some evidence that hints to genetic factors. For example, we know that boys are at much higher risk than girls, but we don't know why. Similarly, we know that older parents are more likely to have autistic children—but again, we don't know why. See https://www.verywell.com/autism-4014759 https://www.verywell.com/autism-4014759

kmonsen 10y ago
This could just as well apply to environmental factors though, siblings probably share those. Also the boy/girl factor could be explained by different behaviors, so different exposures. Not saying I know anything about this, or that this is the case, just that the increased family risk and boy/girl risk doesn't mean it is genetics.
- dsacco 10y ago
  >>This could just as well apply to environmental factors though, siblings probably share those. That's correct, but looking at concordance rates between monozygotic (identical) and dizygotic (fraternal) twins demonstrates that there is at least a partial genetic connection. Identical twins share the diagnosis in 77% of cases, while fraternal twins only share the diagnosis in 31% of cases.[1] Given that identical twins share more genetic material, the conclusion is that autism has a genetic component to its incidence. That said, most research on the subject, including the paper I'm citing, establishes that there is most likely a dual nature-nurture component. In particular, this study was conducted on twins within the same household, so the genetic component would have been augmented by shared environmental factors. [1]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440679/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440679/

i14ng 10y ago

Kids often share autistic traits with their parents. The parents are either diagnosable themselves or very nearly so. My son is the third or fourth generation to be likely-diagnosable, for example. Currently-middle-aged parents without intellectual disability had almost zero chance of being diagnosed as children, because when we were kids autism was defined such that you usually had to be nonverbal or intellectually disabled to qualify. A very commonly-reported experience is for parents to be diagnosed after their children are diagnosed.

i14ng 10y ago
To clarify, I'm not trying to argue definitively that these traits are all genetic vs. acquired by watching one's parents. Perhaps it's some mix, though mostly-genetic seems likely to me. I _am_ trying to say that often the traits run in families, which argues against external causes such as vaccines and chemicals.