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> It automatically manages memory I have to stop you there. You shouldn't compare anything to C/C++ or Rust after that. You are better off comparing Swift with

> It automatically manages memory I have to stop you there. You shouldn't compare anything to C/C++ or Rust after that. You are better off comparing Swift with Go(i.e. both have automatic memory management, nice syntax, static typing, dynamic feeling etc) or Java(automatic memory management, well established in the enterprise world). If Apple was to design a language to respond to Go or Java it would be Swift and that's it. So the pitch is that you have a nice language which encourages productivity and you can share the knowledge/code between server and client.

hellofunk 10y ago
Well, technically Swift's memory management is the same as what C++ offers via smart pointers, the only difference is that in C++ it is opt-in (and still very popular). Swift is quite unlike Go or Java's memory management; it is not a GC in the sense that they use it.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  Swift memory management isn't nearly as expressive as C++ when it comes to references (i.e. unmanaged pointers). You can use in/out/inout parameters on functions and that's about it. I agree with the parent that Swift memory management is basically like Go or Java: everything is GC'd (reference counting being a form of GC).
  - hellofunk 10y ago
    You don't need in/out params to get references; in Swift, anything defined with "class" is always passed by reference.
    - pcwalton 10y ago
      Unmanaged references. Regular old class references aren't unmanaged (they adjust reference counts).
- themihai 10y ago
  Swift does have a runtime though. In its current form I can't see it replacing C or C++. It may provide more deterministic performance than Go but it's not C. If it were to be designed as C replacement I would expect a roadmap for embedded environments, praise about its mapping to the hardware, how it trashes or at least matches C/C++ on its application domain(i.e. low level/ hardware interface or performance) etc but it's clear that is not the case and its focus is on "apps" first, servers second and maybe a bit of low level.

hellofunk 10y ago

Well, technically Swift's memory management is the same as what C++ offers via smart pointers, the only difference is that in C++ it is opt-in (and still very popular). Swift is quite unlike Go or Java's memory management; it is not a GC in the sense that they use it.

pcwalton 10y ago
Swift memory management isn't nearly as expressive as C++ when it comes to references (i.e. unmanaged pointers). You can use in/out/inout parameters on functions and that's about it. I agree with the parent that Swift memory management is basically like Go or Java: everything is GC'd (reference counting being a form of GC).
- hellofunk 10y ago
  You don't need in/out params to get references; in Swift, anything defined with "class" is always passed by reference.
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    Unmanaged references. Regular old class references aren't unmanaged (they adjust reference counts).
themihai 10y ago
Swift does have a runtime though. In its current form I can't see it replacing C or C++. It may provide more deterministic performance than Go but it's not C. If it were to be designed as C replacement I would expect a roadmap for embedded environments, praise about its mapping to the hardware, how it trashes or at least matches C/C++ on its application domain(i.e. low level/ hardware interface or performance) etc but it's clear that is not the case and its focus is on "apps" first, servers second and maybe a bit of low level.