5 ms·

It's not only a matter of ability, but also of opportunity cost. For instance, when I was a teenager, I always fixed my bicycle by myself. Nowadays, I guess I

It's not only a matter of ability, but also of opportunity cost. For instance, when I was a teenager, I always fixed my bicycle by myself. Nowadays, I guess I could do it if I had too, but I prefer to pay $50 and have somebody else do it for me. Same goes for washing machines or similar appliance, I'm sure many people could manage to fix them by themselves by spending enough time, but is it worth it?

Teever 10y ago
I agree but I think it is worth considering what the opportunity cost of letting those skills atrophy. Can you still fix your bicycle? Like if you had no money or were stuck somewhere distant could you still do it? Is it just because you're older now and have income that you pay someone to do it or is it something society in general does? Do children's parents just get someone to fix their bike or throw it away and get a new one? What does it cost us as a society when a generation loses those skills?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tmptmp 10y ago
  >>What does it cost us as a society when a generation loses those skills? This. This is a lot to do with today's society. We don't seem to appreciate the problem at all. People just think that they can throw some money at someone and get the things repaired and so they don't need to learn anything. Society as a whole may have to bear a huge cost, and by the time they realize this they might have already lost their time. Manufacturers are a lot to blame but today's lifestyle of "it's just a matter of few bucks, so why waster time?" is also to blame.
soneil 10y ago
I think there's some kind of sliding scale that needs to be teased out. eg, for your bicycle example; if I cycle an hour from home, then have a puncture; I'd rather be able to swap a tube out myself, than walk it home. Even if I can call someone out to me, I can probably do it myself in the time it'd take them to arrive. Once you can admit there's some level you'd rather be able to do yourself, all you need to do is keep stretching that envelope little by little.
barnacs 10y ago
It depends on your definition of opportunity cost. Recently my ~20 year old fridge stopped working and I spent the better part of the day diagnosing the issue, getting a replacement part and fixing it. Sure, I could have spent that time doing wage labor, call someone to fix it or even get a new fridge and I would have ended up with a net profit. But to me personally, the bigger opportunity cost would have been missing the chance to tinker, learn about fridge circuits, compressors, thermistors, diagnose and fix the issue and enjoy success.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  The flip side is so the math Old units are much less efficient. I think last time I did the math my old fridge is rasing my power bill by $50 a year over a new one. So over 10 years that's $500 burned up in smoke and global warming. So then it's buy a new fridge for $900 vs fix old one for $100 plus $500 in burned coal over 10 years. Now if power rates doubled then it would always win to buy the new fridge even if nothing to repair.
  - barnacs 10y ago
    Yeah I did some math on that too but it's a bit more complicated than that. First of all, I don't trust a new fridge these days to last 10 years but I can easily see this one purring for another 20 with minor repairs. Secondly, this is a combo fridge+freezer unit, with 2 compressors. New ones only seem to have one compressor, which makes them somewhat more efficient but if it dies, both my freezer and fridge die with it. And lastly, it's not my fault we're still burning coal :/ I'm planning to invest in personal solar...
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      Perhaps.. but lets say in 10 years efficiency goes up another 30%. So yes even if your current fridge COULD last 20 more years, with efficiency gains the best thing for the environment COULD be to melt it down for scrap and get a newer model. To me this is the really interesting part in all of this. If there was no efficiency gains generation to generation.. say a piece of clothing.. seems pretty obvious to make slightly better if it can last 100% longer for 20% more material/energy/cost. Things like cars/ fridges / AC units? The math is complex. Think of all the cars on the road right now where 30 year old cars. The air in LA and SF would be like the air in Beijing or Mexico City. It is in fact both good AND bad for the environment at the same time that things are slowly retired and replaced with newer models. But for example gas furnaces have slowly improved from 50%??? efficient to 99.9% efficient. Clearly they can't get better. But for example, heat pumps can get > 100% efficient.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Here's the thing - the more disposable and non-serviceable the stuff becomes, the less likely it is you'll find someone to pay that $50 - instead of going to the repair shop down the street, you have to find the Licensed Repair Shop of the vendor, pay $200 and hope it'll be done before next month. And a new bike will cost you $199 anyway.
- fma 10y ago
  Yep...who repairs shoes or clothes now a days? Go out and buy a new shirt for less than $10. Furniture repair? With Ikea and other compressed wood furniture, it's not worth it to repair furniture. Consumer printers? Just buy a new one. Heck, I can buy a brand new photo printer for cheaper than it takes to buy the ink (after rebates, of course). I'm also surprised by this: The proposed legislation would cut regular tax on repairs of bikes, clothes, and shoes from 25% to 12%. I can't imagine paying a 25% tax on someone's labor (I live in the U.S)

Teever 10y ago

I agree but I think it is worth considering what the opportunity cost of letting those skills atrophy. Can you still fix your bicycle? Like if you had no money or were stuck somewhere distant could you still do it? Is it just because you're older now and have income that you pay someone to do it or is it something society in general does? Do children's parents just get someone to fix their bike or throw it away and get a new one? What does it cost us as a society when a generation loses those skills?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tmptmp 10y ago
>>What does it cost us as a society when a generation loses those skills? This. This is a lot to do with today's society. We don't seem to appreciate the problem at all. People just think that they can throw some money at someone and get the things repaired and so they don't need to learn anything. Society as a whole may have to bear a huge cost, and by the time they realize this they might have already lost their time. Manufacturers are a lot to blame but today's lifestyle of "it's just a matter of few bucks, so why waster time?" is also to blame.

soneil 10y ago

I think there's some kind of sliding scale that needs to be teased out. eg, for your bicycle example; if I cycle an hour from home, then have a puncture; I'd rather be able to swap a tube out myself, than walk it home. Even if I can call someone out to me, I can probably do it myself in the time it'd take them to arrive. Once you can admit there's some level you'd rather be able to do yourself, all you need to do is keep stretching that envelope little by little.

barnacs 10y ago

It depends on your definition of opportunity cost. Recently my ~20 year old fridge stopped working and I spent the better part of the day diagnosing the issue, getting a replacement part and fixing it. Sure, I could have spent that time doing wage labor, call someone to fix it or even get a new fridge and I would have ended up with a net profit. But to me personally, the bigger opportunity cost would have been missing the chance to tinker, learn about fridge circuits, compressors, thermistors, diagnose and fix the issue and enjoy success.

brianwawok 10y ago
The flip side is so the math Old units are much less efficient. I think last time I did the math my old fridge is rasing my power bill by $50 a year over a new one. So over 10 years that's $500 burned up in smoke and global warming. So then it's buy a new fridge for $900 vs fix old one for $100 plus $500 in burned coal over 10 years. Now if power rates doubled then it would always win to buy the new fridge even if nothing to repair.
- barnacs 10y ago
  Yeah I did some math on that too but it's a bit more complicated than that. First of all, I don't trust a new fridge these days to last 10 years but I can easily see this one purring for another 20 with minor repairs. Secondly, this is a combo fridge+freezer unit, with 2 compressors. New ones only seem to have one compressor, which makes them somewhat more efficient but if it dies, both my freezer and fridge die with it. And lastly, it's not my fault we're still burning coal :/ I'm planning to invest in personal solar...
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    Perhaps.. but lets say in 10 years efficiency goes up another 30%. So yes even if your current fridge COULD last 20 more years, with efficiency gains the best thing for the environment COULD be to melt it down for scrap and get a newer model. To me this is the really interesting part in all of this. If there was no efficiency gains generation to generation.. say a piece of clothing.. seems pretty obvious to make slightly better if it can last 100% longer for 20% more material/energy/cost. Things like cars/ fridges / AC units? The math is complex. Think of all the cars on the road right now where 30 year old cars. The air in LA and SF would be like the air in Beijing or Mexico City. It is in fact both good AND bad for the environment at the same time that things are slowly retired and replaced with newer models. But for example gas furnaces have slowly improved from 50%??? efficient to 99.9% efficient. Clearly they can't get better. But for example, heat pumps can get > 100% efficient.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

Here's the thing - the more disposable and non-serviceable the stuff becomes, the less likely it is you'll find someone to pay that $50 - instead of going to the repair shop down the street, you have to find the Licensed Repair Shop of the vendor, pay $200 and hope it'll be done before next month. And a new bike will cost you $199 anyway.

fma 10y ago
Yep...who repairs shoes or clothes now a days? Go out and buy a new shirt for less than $10. Furniture repair? With Ikea and other compressed wood furniture, it's not worth it to repair furniture. Consumer printers? Just buy a new one. Heck, I can buy a brand new photo printer for cheaper than it takes to buy the ink (after rebates, of course). I'm also surprised by this: The proposed legislation would cut regular tax on repairs of bikes, clothes, and shoes from 25% to 12%. I can't imagine paying a 25% tax on someone's labor (I live in the U.S)