4 ms·

> Apple's making the right business decision now and I don't think you can fault them for that. Yes, I can. Restricting developers' rights isn't a valid busine

by noamsml 17y ago

> Apple's making the right business decision now and I don't think you can fault them for that. Yes, I can. Restricting developers' rights isn't a valid business decision. That's like saying Highway robbery is a respectable income source.

glhaynes 17y ago
Restricting developers' rights isn't a valid business decision. Why? Developers aren't a constitutionally protected special class.
- shawndumas 17y ago
  legal and smart are two different things...
- jasonlotito 17y ago
  What does the constitution have anything to do with this? Why bring the Canadian Constitution into it? Finally, you have a misunderstanding of a right. It isn't something you need to be given via a law. A right is something you have despite laws. The US Constitution doesn't give you the explicit right to "think whatever you want," but you have it. As for rights, he's referring the right of a developer to use whatever programming language he wishes to developer software on different systems. A closed system prevents a developer from exercising that right. It's even worse when a system establishes itself with certain restrictions and freedoms, and then changes that later on. In fact, it's called Bait and Switch. Apple had certain rules and requirements, and certain people bought into that idea. Now they've changed that. You can argue with they are allowed to, but that doesn't diminish the criticism thrown at them. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should do something. There are a million examples to demonstrate that. For a long time, a lot of intelligent people were saying that Apple was inching closer and closer toward restricting rights of its users more and more. People disregarded us, and said "Hey, Apple can do this!" While they might be legally able to, this doesn't mean they should. They restrict the content. They restrict how you display that content. They restrict more and more. I have no pity for Apple supporters anymore. And when Apple restricts that thing you hold dear, you'll cry. Or you'll do what others have done: decide what you wanted was wrong, and you shouldn't have wanted it, and Apple was right.
  - glhaynes 17y ago
    I haven't heard a good case that developers are born with an inalienable right to write any code they want for any platform they want. It devalues the very concept of rights you're arguing for when people claim anything they'd like to do as a "right". Whether Apple's recent move is a good decision or not is totally up for debate. As is whether the change is distasteful or offensive. But whether it's a "valid business decision [because it violates some God-given right]" is not.
    - jasonlotito 17y ago
      "I haven't heard a good case that developers are born with an inalienable right to write any code they want for any platform they want." Probably because I can't think of a single time when this has been an issue. The argument isn't over what Apple can do. It's that Apple is dictating how developers are allowed to develop their applications. This isn't about writing Java apps that will run on the iPhone. It's about writing Objective-C apps using whatever tools we want that will run on the iPhone. "As is whether the change is distasteful or offensive." One could argue it's both. Either is fine by me.
      - glhaynes 17y ago
        It's about writing Objective-C apps using whatever tools we want that will run on the iPhone. Exactly. And that's not a natural right. And Apple not allowing it is a valid business decision (whether it's a good one for Apple's bottom line or a good one morally—or whether it even is a moral question—is up for debate). That's all I'm saying. Let's use reasonable terms so our debate is sensible and valid.
kelnos 17y ago
Adding restrictions to your development platform is hardly akin to highway robbery. I may not agree with what Apple has done (despite the fact that I do know ObjC and am familiar with Cocoa, I won't be writing any iPhone apps), but it is indeed their choice to make.

by noamsml 17y ago

glhaynes 17y ago

Restricting developers' rights isn't a valid business decision. Why? Developers aren't a constitutionally protected special class.

shawndumas 17y ago
legal and smart are two different things...
jasonlotito 17y ago
What does the constitution have anything to do with this? Why bring the Canadian Constitution into it? Finally, you have a misunderstanding of a right. It isn't something you need to be given via a law. A right is something you have despite laws. The US Constitution doesn't give you the explicit right to "think whatever you want," but you have it. As for rights, he's referring the right of a developer to use whatever programming language he wishes to developer software on different systems. A closed system prevents a developer from exercising that right. It's even worse when a system establishes itself with certain restrictions and freedoms, and then changes that later on. In fact, it's called Bait and Switch. Apple had certain rules and requirements, and certain people bought into that idea. Now they've changed that. You can argue with they are allowed to, but that doesn't diminish the criticism thrown at them. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should do something. There are a million examples to demonstrate that. For a long time, a lot of intelligent people were saying that Apple was inching closer and closer toward restricting rights of its users more and more. People disregarded us, and said "Hey, Apple can do this!" While they might be legally able to, this doesn't mean they should. They restrict the content. They restrict how you display that content. They restrict more and more. I have no pity for Apple supporters anymore. And when Apple restricts that thing you hold dear, you'll cry. Or you'll do what others have done: decide what you wanted was wrong, and you shouldn't have wanted it, and Apple was right.
- glhaynes 17y ago
  I haven't heard a good case that developers are born with an inalienable right to write any code they want for any platform they want. It devalues the very concept of rights you're arguing for when people claim anything they'd like to do as a "right". Whether Apple's recent move is a good decision or not is totally up for debate. As is whether the change is distasteful or offensive. But whether it's a "valid business decision [because it violates some God-given right]" is not.
  - jasonlotito 17y ago
    "I haven't heard a good case that developers are born with an inalienable right to write any code they want for any platform they want." Probably because I can't think of a single time when this has been an issue. The argument isn't over what Apple can do. It's that Apple is dictating how developers are allowed to develop their applications. This isn't about writing Java apps that will run on the iPhone. It's about writing Objective-C apps using whatever tools we want that will run on the iPhone. "As is whether the change is distasteful or offensive." One could argue it's both. Either is fine by me.
    - glhaynes 17y ago
      It's about writing Objective-C apps using whatever tools we want that will run on the iPhone. Exactly. And that's not a natural right. And Apple not allowing it is a valid business decision (whether it's a good one for Apple's bottom line or a good one morally—or whether it even is a moral question—is up for debate). That's all I'm saying. Let's use reasonable terms so our debate is sensible and valid.

kelnos 17y ago

Adding restrictions to your development platform is hardly akin to highway robbery. I may not agree with what Apple has done (despite the fact that I do know ObjC and am familiar with Cocoa, I won't be writing any iPhone apps), but it is indeed their choice to make.