4 ms·

I maintain a copy of Firefox Developer Edition on my system and I make a concerted effort to open it every few days so it can update itself and so I can test an

by aorth 10y ago

I maintain a copy of Firefox Developer Edition on my system and I make a concerted effort to open it every few days so it can update itself and so I can test any new sites or blog posts I'm working on. I've tried to switch back to Firefox cold turkey in the past and it never works for me, but I might introduce a personal policy of one week on, one week off, alternating between Firefox and Chrome.

ffggvv 10y ago
This is the problem. You value your convenience more than your freedom, and the future of privacy.
- marklgr 10y ago
  You can make people change their behavior by shifting the weights, but it is pointless to tell them what their value should be. Make FF more convenient, or show how bad competitors are regarding to privacy.
- formula1 10y ago
  Do you honestly believe that switching to firefox will be the change? Its purely symbolic considering firefox has been heavilly funded by google in the past [0] and likely still influences their decisions. A few developers doesnt account for the millions of people that use chrome, widescale change requires influencers and those willing to stand up, not a bunch of upset introverts with a distaste for authority. Honestly, Im not sure what will help future and privacy considering your information is the number 1 comodity. But Im getting the impression that escape is impossible and we all should get used to being less "anti coorperation" and more "pro happiness" [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Freak_NL 10y ago
    I used to think like that when I was a CS student back in 2000; “You can't beat Microsoft; their stuff is the best and you would be mad not to join their camp.”, all the while scoffing at those who used alternative OSes and browsers. At some point though I started to grasp the bigger context of software and the social impact it has, and started doubting my youthful sycophantic zeal. Then I switched to Phoenix (Firefox's forefather) and started delving into that Linux thing people were talking about soon after. Now as an adult software developer I do take the ethical side of the equation into account, and I can't imagine ever relinquishing what little control I have over my data and my computers to mega-corporations without a fight. I don't know what the best way forward is, but as long as Firefox is a decent browser (and it is) I'm doing my part by simply using it, recommending it to those who would benefit from it, and helping out here and there by submitting bugs and helping people fix their websites. I do know that giving in is not constructive.
    - distances 10y ago
      One good sales pitch: Firefox for Android has extensions (read: ad blockers), while Chrome doesn't. Faster page loads, less data quota used, less battery consumed, better privacy.
    - formula1 10y ago
      I use linux as well, though ubuntu which is the mcdonalds of linux. And I often look at software through an ethical lense. But I don't view Mozilla as this nice sweet company because ultimately their power is not decentralized. They use free labor to build cool stuff but there are owners and managers that get paid way more than the people in the gutters believing in some great "vision". Open source is a ver novel concept, but the idea that mozilla wouldn't sell your data or is the 'safe' option is absolutely absurd. They have gotten caught numerous times red handed doing shady things such as the pocket drama [0]. Once theres some sort of git/bitcoin algorithm to create truely open source / uncontrolled / decentralized software, then we are in a different scenario. I will be using servo once its out though. I am very intrigued by all the work they've put into it. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10679519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10679519
- reitanqild 10y ago
  I'd recommend against this line of reasoning because it makes people feel like they are sacrificing something when they switch, I always argue that IMO and for reasons x, y and z FF is the better choice for power users.
vacri 10y ago
A lot of it is just familiarity. I get the same thing moving from FF to Chrome - I find the Chrome UI annoying and it doesn't work for me as well as FF. Perhaps a nod to how much google wants to own your experience is how the chrome browser doesn't use your desktop's windowing decorators, instead spludging down its own horror. I prefer my own horror, thankyouverymuch!
oAlbe 10y ago
> it never works for me Why not? What are the factors that convinced you to stay with Chrome? (genuine questions)
- aorth 10y ago
  I think it's just that the UI feels laggy when switching tabs, especially if another page is loading. This might be getting better, though: today I just randomly stumbled on this Mozilla wiki page discussing their plan for dealing with this UI lag: increasing the number of content threads. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Multiple_content_processes https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Multiple_content_proce... The setting defaults to 1, but will be moving to 2, and then 5 eventually. I'm testing Firefox Developer Edition 51.0a2 (2016-09-26) with this set at 4 right now. I only ever have ~10 tabs open, uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger addon, and my machine is fast and has lots of RAM.

by aorth 10y ago

ffggvv 10y ago

This is the problem. You value your convenience more than your freedom, and the future of privacy.

marklgr 10y ago
You can make people change their behavior by shifting the weights, but it is pointless to tell them what their value should be. Make FF more convenient, or show how bad competitors are regarding to privacy.
formula1 10y ago
Do you honestly believe that switching to firefox will be the change? Its purely symbolic considering firefox has been heavilly funded by google in the past [0] and likely still influences their decisions. A few developers doesnt account for the millions of people that use chrome, widescale change requires influencers and those willing to stand up, not a bunch of upset introverts with a distaste for authority. Honestly, Im not sure what will help future and privacy considering your information is the number 1 comodity. But Im getting the impression that escape is impossible and we all should get used to being less "anti coorperation" and more "pro happiness" [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Freak_NL 10y ago
  I used to think like that when I was a CS student back in 2000; “You can't beat Microsoft; their stuff is the best and you would be mad not to join their camp.”, all the while scoffing at those who used alternative OSes and browsers. At some point though I started to grasp the bigger context of software and the social impact it has, and started doubting my youthful sycophantic zeal. Then I switched to Phoenix (Firefox's forefather) and started delving into that Linux thing people were talking about soon after. Now as an adult software developer I do take the ethical side of the equation into account, and I can't imagine ever relinquishing what little control I have over my data and my computers to mega-corporations without a fight. I don't know what the best way forward is, but as long as Firefox is a decent browser (and it is) I'm doing my part by simply using it, recommending it to those who would benefit from it, and helping out here and there by submitting bugs and helping people fix their websites. I do know that giving in is not constructive.
  - distances 10y ago
    One good sales pitch: Firefox for Android has extensions (read: ad blockers), while Chrome doesn't. Faster page loads, less data quota used, less battery consumed, better privacy.
  - formula1 10y ago
    I use linux as well, though ubuntu which is the mcdonalds of linux. And I often look at software through an ethical lense. But I don't view Mozilla as this nice sweet company because ultimately their power is not decentralized. They use free labor to build cool stuff but there are owners and managers that get paid way more than the people in the gutters believing in some great "vision". Open source is a ver novel concept, but the idea that mozilla wouldn't sell your data or is the 'safe' option is absolutely absurd. They have gotten caught numerous times red handed doing shady things such as the pocket drama [0]. Once theres some sort of git/bitcoin algorithm to create truely open source / uncontrolled / decentralized software, then we are in a different scenario. I will be using servo once its out though. I am very intrigued by all the work they've put into it. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10679519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10679519
reitanqild 10y ago
I'd recommend against this line of reasoning because it makes people feel like they are sacrificing something when they switch, I always argue that IMO and for reasons x, y and z FF is the better choice for power users.

vacri 10y ago

A lot of it is just familiarity. I get the same thing moving from FF to Chrome - I find the Chrome UI annoying and it doesn't work for me as well as FF. Perhaps a nod to how much google wants to own your experience is how the chrome browser doesn't use your desktop's windowing decorators, instead spludging down its own horror. I prefer my own horror, thankyouverymuch!

oAlbe 10y ago

> it never works for me Why not? What are the factors that convinced you to stay with Chrome? (genuine questions)

aorth 10y ago
I think it's just that the UI feels laggy when switching tabs, especially if another page is loading. This might be getting better, though: today I just randomly stumbled on this Mozilla wiki page discussing their plan for dealing with this UI lag: increasing the number of content threads. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Multiple_content_processes https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Multiple_content_proce... The setting defaults to 1, but will be moving to 2, and then 5 eventually. I'm testing Firefox Developer Edition 51.0a2 (2016-09-26) with this set at 4 right now. I only ever have ~10 tabs open, uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger addon, and my machine is fast and has lots of RAM.