4 ms·

Don't worry, you can just have journald send loglines across the network to a centralised logserver... ... oh, wait, that hasn't been solved yet. Instead, ther

by vacri 10y ago

Don't worry, you can just have journald send loglines across the network to a centralised logserver... ... oh, wait, that hasn't been solved yet. Instead, there's a variety of hacky workarounds (send it to rsyslog and get it to ship; follow a journal with ncat and ship that; some others). Centralising journald logs is my current ops problem de juor.

simcop2387 10y ago
yea that's the one problem I've seen with journald that needs a proper solution. The other features it brings I've loved for my desktop but I wouldn't want it for long term data/logging yet.
duncan_bayne 10y ago
"Those who do not understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly" - Henry Spencer
- hackits 10y ago
  Does that imply that LINUX was implemented poorly? I allays found the concept of socket file's to be mysterious things (coming from a windows background)
  - pjc50 10y ago
    Socket file descriptors were in UNIX before Linux was written. They were eventually copied into Windows via "Winsock", and Windows shares the same basic idea of using ReadFile to access the sockets. (The "reinvent it badly" is systemd replacing syslogd without re-implementing functionality that was important to a big subset of admins, because the people who wrote systemd are focused on the personal workstation case to the exclusion of all others)
    - duncan_bayne 10y ago
      But more fundamentally than the desktop / server focus, they either don't understand or don't value what makes UNIX great. systemd is in many respects a major departure from UNIX philosophy, and I predict it will mark an inflection point in the quality and usability of Linux distros that adopt it, hence my efforts to migrate my own systems to FreeBSD. For those wondering what I'm banging on about, please read The Art of UNIX Programming, which should have been called The Philosophy of UNIX: http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/ http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/. Edit: what I mean by fundamental is that it shouldn't matter whether the tools are intended for desktop or server use; they should be designed to interoperate seamlessly using text protocols via pipes, sockets and files. That way they can be composed, filtered and transformed in ways not yet dreamed of by their creators. The systemd folks are falling into the Microsoft and Apple trap by trying to anticipate how their software will be used, instead of building it so it can easily be hacked upon for uses they themselves haven't dreamed of (which oddly seems to include 'servers'). To put it bluntly: systemd has neither the hacker nature nor the UNIX nature, and history has been unkind to OSs with neither. I'm betting against it being a Good Thing in the long run.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Yeah. As much as I hate ESR (I hate to beat that dead horse, but I don't want anyone getting the impression that I like him) he got it right here in this case, and Systemd definitely does the Wrong Thing. It's not a Good Thing now, though: It's an attack surface.
        duncan_bayne 10y ago
        Agreed - what I meant was, in the long run, I expect that systemd will prove harmful to GNU/Linux in general, strategically. Also FWIW, I like ESR a lot :) I'm mildly concerned about thread drift, but... why do you dislike him so?
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        He's an okay programmer, but he's got a frankly wacko political agenda (Ayn Rand, Libertarian, racism, paranoia etc.), he's mismanaged The Jargon File by putting in some of his own phrases which nobody else uses, and he's just an all-around unpleasant person. Honestly, he's kind of worse than RMS, who is merely unpleasant to be around...
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    No, but Lennart's been re-inventing userspace poorly...
ecnahc515 10y ago
Look at systemd-journal-upload. Also look at systemd-journal-remote. I was able to get upload working with the journal-remote and fluentd's TCP input.

by vacri 10y ago

simcop2387 10y ago

yea that's the one problem I've seen with journald that needs a proper solution. The other features it brings I've loved for my desktop but I wouldn't want it for long term data/logging yet.

duncan_bayne 10y ago

"Those who do not understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly" - Henry Spencer

hackits 10y ago
Does that imply that LINUX was implemented poorly? I allays found the concept of socket file's to be mysterious things (coming from a windows background)
- pjc50 10y ago
  Socket file descriptors were in UNIX before Linux was written. They were eventually copied into Windows via "Winsock", and Windows shares the same basic idea of using ReadFile to access the sockets. (The "reinvent it badly" is systemd replacing syslogd without re-implementing functionality that was important to a big subset of admins, because the people who wrote systemd are focused on the personal workstation case to the exclusion of all others)
  - duncan_bayne 10y ago
    But more fundamentally than the desktop / server focus, they either don't understand or don't value what makes UNIX great. systemd is in many respects a major departure from UNIX philosophy, and I predict it will mark an inflection point in the quality and usability of Linux distros that adopt it, hence my efforts to migrate my own systems to FreeBSD. For those wondering what I'm banging on about, please read The Art of UNIX Programming, which should have been called The Philosophy of UNIX: http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/ http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/. Edit: what I mean by fundamental is that it shouldn't matter whether the tools are intended for desktop or server use; they should be designed to interoperate seamlessly using text protocols via pipes, sockets and files. That way they can be composed, filtered and transformed in ways not yet dreamed of by their creators. The systemd folks are falling into the Microsoft and Apple trap by trying to anticipate how their software will be used, instead of building it so it can easily be hacked upon for uses they themselves haven't dreamed of (which oddly seems to include 'servers'). To put it bluntly: systemd has neither the hacker nature nor the UNIX nature, and history has been unkind to OSs with neither. I'm betting against it being a Good Thing in the long run.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      Yeah. As much as I hate ESR (I hate to beat that dead horse, but I don't want anyone getting the impression that I like him) he got it right here in this case, and Systemd definitely does the Wrong Thing. It's not a Good Thing now, though: It's an attack surface.
      - duncan_bayne 10y ago
        Agreed - what I meant was, in the long run, I expect that systemd will prove harmful to GNU/Linux in general, strategically. Also FWIW, I like ESR a lot :) I'm mildly concerned about thread drift, but... why do you dislike him so?
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        He's an okay programmer, but he's got a frankly wacko political agenda (Ayn Rand, Libertarian, racism, paranoia etc.), he's mismanaged The Jargon File by putting in some of his own phrases which nobody else uses, and he's just an all-around unpleasant person. Honestly, he's kind of worse than RMS, who is merely unpleasant to be around...
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  No, but Lennart's been re-inventing userspace poorly...

ecnahc515 10y ago

Look at systemd-journal-upload. Also look at systemd-journal-remote. I was able to get upload working with the journal-remote and fluentd's TCP input.