4 ms·

So the solution to a government-caused problem is more government intervention in the form of a brand new tax?

ScottBurson 10y ago
First off, there's nothing "new" about it. Property taxes existed before Prop. 13 was passed in 1978, and AFAIK most states do not limit them as Prop. 13 does. Secondly, rhetoric about "more" government and "less" government tends to leave me cold. (The solution to buggy software is not "less software" any more than it is "more software".) What we need is well-designed government. That means, among other things, that when we find that one of our systems has unintended and undesirable consequences, we fix it. And thirdly, I don't know how this is a "government-caused problem". Prop. 13 passed by referendum.
- clarkmoody 10y ago
  The government is deeply entangled in the housing market, playing both sides of the ball. On the supply side, government imposes zoning rules, building permitting, building codes, setbacks, height limits, etc. All these lead to a tightening of supply and an increase in price. Some can lead to corruption, such as if the permitting process is too restrictive and results in bribes & kickbacks to the officials in charge. The government boosts the demand side as well through Fed policy first, which artificially lowers interest rates. Then there are all sorts of housing policies that encourage home ownership with eased lending standards, better loan terms, etc. That boosts demand and increases price. So you're talking about Prop 13, but I'm talking about the overall picture.
ubernostrum 10y ago
Well, the idea of exclusive ownership of real property is a fiction maintained by governments. Do you want to get rid of that one, since it's arguably the "real" root of the problem?
- clarkmoody 10y ago
  Property is a feature of natural law, which exists before government. But some governments encode the natural law into the legal framework. Well without property rights, the entire human race wouldn't have left the hunter-gatherer phase, so property is not the root of the problem.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    "Natural law" is a fiction, as are any "natural rights" derived from it (and the concept of "natural rights" in general). Property is simply one of a collection of fictions we choose to enforce because the alternative is usually more miserable.
enraged_camel 10y ago
The problem may be government-caused, but that doesn't mean that all government intervention is bad, as you're implying. The rationale is closer to this: the government caused this problem, and the government can (and should) fix it.

First off, there's nothing "new" about it. Property taxes existed before Prop. 13 was passed in 1978, and AFAIK most states do not limit them as Prop. 13 does. Secondly, rhetoric about "more" government and "less" government tends to leave me cold. (The solution to buggy software is not "less software" any more than it is "more software".) What we need is well-designed government. That means, among other things, that when we find that one of our systems has unintended and undesirable consequences, we fix it. And thirdly, I don't know how this is a "government-caused problem". Prop. 13 passed by referendum.

clarkmoody 10y ago
The government is deeply entangled in the housing market, playing both sides of the ball. On the supply side, government imposes zoning rules, building permitting, building codes, setbacks, height limits, etc. All these lead to a tightening of supply and an increase in price. Some can lead to corruption, such as if the permitting process is too restrictive and results in bribes & kickbacks to the officials in charge. The government boosts the demand side as well through Fed policy first, which artificially lowers interest rates. Then there are all sorts of housing policies that encourage home ownership with eased lending standards, better loan terms, etc. That boosts demand and increases price. So you're talking about Prop 13, but I'm talking about the overall picture.

ubernostrum 10y ago

Well, the idea of exclusive ownership of real property is a fiction maintained by governments. Do you want to get rid of that one, since it's arguably the "real" root of the problem?

clarkmoody 10y ago
Property is a feature of natural law, which exists before government. But some governments encode the natural law into the legal framework. Well without property rights, the entire human race wouldn't have left the hunter-gatherer phase, so property is not the root of the problem.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  "Natural law" is a fiction, as are any "natural rights" derived from it (and the concept of "natural rights" in general). Property is simply one of a collection of fictions we choose to enforce because the alternative is usually more miserable.

enraged_camel 10y ago

The problem may be government-caused, but that doesn't mean that all government intervention is bad, as you're implying. The rationale is closer to this: the government caused this problem, and the government can (and should) fix it.