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The government is needed to enforce the laws. This does not mean the goverment needs to redistribute wealth, regulate business or manage the economy. A governme

The government is needed to enforce the laws. This does not mean the goverment needs to redistribute wealth, regulate business or manage the economy. A government which stuck to this role could be funded by tax rates of about 5-8%. My ideal society would have said funds made by voluntary donations. This is a far-off ideal, but it is achievable - unless you think humans cannot form a society without coercion.

noobermin 10y ago
Often times, experience suggests people are not saints and will do or not do things unless compelled by laws and rules.
- objectivistbrit 10y ago
  Re-read my post. Laws are needed, government is needed, taxation and coercion are not needed.
shkkmo 10y ago
> This does not mean the goverment needs to redistribute wealth, regulate business or manage the economy. Regulating business, managing the economy, and redistributing wealth are not strictly necessary roles for the government. However, having a government that a good job of doing those roles increases economic efficiency and social well being. We don't HAVE to have public education, but public education dramaticly increases the productive output of a society. We don't HAVE to have the government regulating business, but having government imposed standards that are well thought out increases consumer trust, decreases economic risk, decreases economic friction, and increases economic efficiency. We don't HAVE to have the government distributing a basic income, but I think gradually replacing the minimum wage with a basic income will increase economic efficiency (lower labor costs) without the corresponding deflationary drop in demand. There is obviously a limit to how much we as a society can afford to provide as a UBI. I don't claim know what that limit is (I suspect it is currently well below the poverty line), but we can find it using gradual increases to UBI and decreases to the minimum wage. We want out government to fulfill these roles because it makes our society safer, fairer and more efficient. We could probably get by with 5-8% tax rates, but the society we would live in would be much poorer. > My ideal society would have said funds made by voluntary donations. This is a far-off ideal, but it is achievable - unless you think humans cannot form a society without coercion. Sure, one day that would be great. One day we will have free energy, benevolent AIs, and instantaneous transportation anywhere in the galaxy (i.e. no scarcity). Until then, we will have to depend on coercion like ever other society in human history has.

noobermin 10y ago

Often times, experience suggests people are not saints and will do or not do things unless compelled by laws and rules.

objectivistbrit 10y ago
Re-read my post. Laws are needed, government is needed, taxation and coercion are not needed.

shkkmo 10y ago

> This does not mean the goverment needs to redistribute wealth, regulate business or manage the economy. Regulating business, managing the economy, and redistributing wealth are not strictly necessary roles for the government. However, having a government that a good job of doing those roles increases economic efficiency and social well being. We don't HAVE to have public education, but public education dramaticly increases the productive output of a society. We don't HAVE to have the government regulating business, but having government imposed standards that are well thought out increases consumer trust, decreases economic risk, decreases economic friction, and increases economic efficiency. We don't HAVE to have the government distributing a basic income, but I think gradually replacing the minimum wage with a basic income will increase economic efficiency (lower labor costs) without the corresponding deflationary drop in demand. There is obviously a limit to how much we as a society can afford to provide as a UBI. I don't claim know what that limit is (I suspect it is currently well below the poverty line), but we can find it using gradual increases to UBI and decreases to the minimum wage. We want out government to fulfill these roles because it makes our society safer, fairer and more efficient. We could probably get by with 5-8% tax rates, but the society we would live in would be much poorer. > My ideal society would have said funds made by voluntary donations. This is a far-off ideal, but it is achievable - unless you think humans cannot form a society without coercion. Sure, one day that would be great. One day we will have free energy, benevolent AIs, and instantaneous transportation anywhere in the galaxy (i.e. no scarcity). Until then, we will have to depend on coercion like ever other society in human history has.