4 ms·

Documents were collected for up to 700 000 people (about 10% of the population), but saying they were "under surveillance" is stretching it. Basically everyone

Documents were collected for up to 700 000 people (about 10% of the population), but saying they were "under surveillance" is stretching it. Basically everyone who was politically "left" was considered a potential threat and random snippets of information about them were collected – sometimes absurdly trivial stuff and quite a lot of it wrong. In 1994, a digital equivalent was born: A database called "ISIS". In 2010, a review showed that more than 230 000 people and organizations were registered once again. NDB, the federal intelligence service, collected data without checking if it is relevant. After a mandatory cleanup, this database is now said to only contain about 30 000 entities. The outcry was much smaller that time. Now, my fellow citizens voted to be properly surveilled. And this time, we'll do it right and probably collect everything, including looking at any traffic flowing through Switzerland. That will be easy, since a recently passed law called "BÜPF" forces every swiss provider to retain metadata for six months, make realtime surveillance possible, decrypt data if they helped encrypt it and pay themselves for the necessary surveillance equipment (they will be reimbursed for every surveillance case). I voted against it, but the writing was on the wall. Well-propagated irrational fear beats common sense. Maybe the checks and balances will be properly implemented this time, but I'm not counting on it.

l33tbro 10y ago
Thanks for this. My own ignorance had me thinking Switzerland to generally be a more educated and progressive nation than it's neighbouring countries. By educated, I mean thinking more critically about issues like surveillance, terrorism, and immigration. Guessing the "well-propogated irrational fear" comes from mainstream media and politicians? Also, having an old surveillance database named ISIS definitely got a chuckle from me.
- cJ0th 10y ago
  > Also, having an old surveillance database named ISIS definitely got a chuckle from me. I think this one is worse: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUxdvzDWoAARh_y.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUxdvzDWoAARh_y.jpg
  - l33tbro 10y ago
    Yep, you win.
- axlee 10y ago
  > My own ignorance had me thinking Switzerland to generally be a more educated and progressive nation than it's neighbouring countries. Switzerland is actually much more conservative than its european neighbours. For example, they were the last country to give women the right to vote in Europe.
  - Iv 10y ago
    Women vote being allowed in Switzerland meant that men had to agree for it by at least 50%. Some days, I wonder if many of its neighbors would have had women votes as early as they did if they had such a strict condition.
    - andreasley 10y ago
      While the swiss men did vote for it in 1971 and allowed women to vote on a federal basis, the men in the canton (state) of "Appenzell Innerrhoden" voted against it until 1990. Then the federal court stepped in and forced them to allow women to vote, too. "Appenzell Innerrhoden" has about 16 000 citizens. Switzerland is small but diverse. The states have significant freedom in making their laws. This usually works well, but sometimes leads to situations like this.
      - etqwzutewzu 10y ago
        Not to say Appenzell Innerrhoden people can be seen as Amish people of Switzerland (even in if fact they probably have very little in common).
- Iv 10y ago
  ISIS was also the name of a secure IT governmental network in France :-) Note that from a US point of view, there is also a fundamental difference in Switzerland: most citizens there trust that the government can be stopped by a simple popular initiative if it oversteps its bounds. In Switzerland, a petition with enough signatures triggers an official referendum, that if accepted becomes a law. No veto possible by government officials. So yes, I am too very suspicious of governmental surveillance, but in Switzerland it may be less out of fear and more because they are pretty confident they can stop a government that goes over the top
- vixen99 10y ago
  its neighbouring countries.
etqwzutewzu 10y ago
"Documents were collected for up to 700 000 people (about 10% of the population)" Is the 700'000 people the total between 1900 and 1990? In this case the "10% of the population" number is probably wrong.

l33tbro 10y ago

Thanks for this. My own ignorance had me thinking Switzerland to generally be a more educated and progressive nation than it's neighbouring countries. By educated, I mean thinking more critically about issues like surveillance, terrorism, and immigration. Guessing the "well-propogated irrational fear" comes from mainstream media and politicians? Also, having an old surveillance database named ISIS definitely got a chuckle from me.

cJ0th 10y ago
> Also, having an old surveillance database named ISIS definitely got a chuckle from me. I think this one is worse: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUxdvzDWoAARh_y.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUxdvzDWoAARh_y.jpg
- l33tbro 10y ago
  Yep, you win.
axlee 10y ago
> My own ignorance had me thinking Switzerland to generally be a more educated and progressive nation than it's neighbouring countries. Switzerland is actually much more conservative than its european neighbours. For example, they were the last country to give women the right to vote in Europe.
- Iv 10y ago
  Women vote being allowed in Switzerland meant that men had to agree for it by at least 50%. Some days, I wonder if many of its neighbors would have had women votes as early as they did if they had such a strict condition.
  - andreasley 10y ago
    While the swiss men did vote for it in 1971 and allowed women to vote on a federal basis, the men in the canton (state) of "Appenzell Innerrhoden" voted against it until 1990. Then the federal court stepped in and forced them to allow women to vote, too. "Appenzell Innerrhoden" has about 16 000 citizens. Switzerland is small but diverse. The states have significant freedom in making their laws. This usually works well, but sometimes leads to situations like this.
    - etqwzutewzu 10y ago
      Not to say Appenzell Innerrhoden people can be seen as Amish people of Switzerland (even in if fact they probably have very little in common).
Iv 10y ago
ISIS was also the name of a secure IT governmental network in France :-) Note that from a US point of view, there is also a fundamental difference in Switzerland: most citizens there trust that the government can be stopped by a simple popular initiative if it oversteps its bounds. In Switzerland, a petition with enough signatures triggers an official referendum, that if accepted becomes a law. No veto possible by government officials. So yes, I am too very suspicious of governmental surveillance, but in Switzerland it may be less out of fear and more because they are pretty confident they can stop a government that goes over the top
vixen99 10y ago
its neighbouring countries.

etqwzutewzu 10y ago

"Documents were collected for up to 700 000 people (about 10% of the population)" Is the 700'000 people the total between 1900 and 1990? In this case the "10% of the population" number is probably wrong.