5 ms·

For the price of an okay family home in an okay neighborhood of Palo Alto you can buy a villa in the South of France... I'm still not sure how to process that.

by iaw 10y ago

x0x0 10y ago
The whole thing really puts the lie to the myth engineers in the valley are well paid. In the land of million dollar entry level homes, even $200k of income (!!!) means you will struggle to own somewhere to live. That barely qualifies you for a $1m loan, and that with a $100k downpayment. I'm aware you can commute eg an hour plus each way from easy bay and find homes for $700k (a bargain!), but something has gone wildly wrong when supposedly well-paid employees can't afford an entry level home in the city they work in.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  Do most people own their own home in New York, London, or Paris? I don't think so... Where are you getting the idea that it's normal to be able to own a home in a major desirable city and global economic hub?
  - ones_and_zeros 10y ago
    Owning a home and raising a family without killing yourself commuting is basically the American dream.
    - umanwizard 10y ago
      And you can still do that in 99% of the country, just not major global cities like SF.
    - staticint 10y ago
      The modern American Dream, perhaps. The historic American Dream was a marketing campaign centred around enjoying the long commute in your American made automobile.
  - x0x0 10y ago
    nyc is significantly cheaper. Three minutes on trulia found multiple yorkville/ues 1bed doorman units under 6 minutes from the 86th st express stop for under $650k. Add in not needing a car and it's a lot cheaper than living in sf/peninsula.
    - randycupertino 10y ago
      Agree- my girlfriend's sister just rented a nice 2br on the UES for $2500 a month. I can't get anything close to that in the same price range in SF, even for a 1br.
    - rashkov 10y ago
      Don't forget the maintenance on that apartment, which is at least 1500 a month. 650k is extremely low, even then. I've only seen that on properties with a large tax abatement that is set to expire, or the land isn't owned by the building and the lease on the land will expire in 10 years. I wish you were right, but New York isn't that kind, even compared to SF.
      - infinotize 10y ago
        Yep - in NYC, there are no public deals. The price always has literally everything baked into it. If it seems low, there is definitely a good reason.
      - ceras 10y ago
        As someone who is currently planning to buy in Manhattan, $650k for a 1br in Yorkville sounds about right. Quick Streeteasy eyeballing around 86 suggests the maintenance need not be $1500 either -- you either get a fancy elevator building at that price, or you get a walkup at a lower price than $650k.
      - x0x0 10y ago
        You're wrong, as glancing at the mentioned sites will show you. Also, you pay property taxes (higher on new purchases), maintenance, and so forth in CA too.
- xienze 10y ago
  > The whole thing really puts the lie to the myth engineers in the valley are well paid. In the land of million dollar entry level homes, even $200k of income (!!!) means you will struggle to own somewhere to live. No, they are _very_ well paid. Anywhere else in the country (minus NYC I guess), they're getting half as much. Simply paying Bay Area developers more money isn't going to make housing more affordable -- what do you think will happen to housing prices when even _more_ money is floating around in the local economy?
  - douche 10y ago
    Elsewhere they are paid half as much, but living expenses in SF are, say, four times higher, or worse. I can rent a whole 2000 sqft house here, under an hour north of Boston, for about $1500/month. I hear that's the going rate for a cardboard box out in the Bay.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    > Anywhere else in the country (minus NYC I guess), they're getting half as much. Odd, when I was actually willing to sniff around for jobs in the Bay Area I couldn't find anyone willing to come close to doubling my Dallas salary. As far as I can tell, unless you can score a job at Google or Facebook your statement isn't accurate.
titanomachy 10y ago
You could buy an island villa in Greece for next to nothing. No work there, though. Not sure exactly point you're making.
- overcast 10y ago
  Work remotely. All of these companies exist virtually on the internet.
  - ameen 10y ago
    You won't be paid as much, though. And get ready for double taxation.
    - overcast 10y ago
      Versus what, spending half your pay on rent, and your life in commutes?
  - Johnny555 10y ago
    Yet few will allow full-time telecommuting - the big tech companies even ship their employees 40 miles south from SF every on a bus because they want them in the office.
pkaye 10y ago
You do realize one can live an hour drive from Palo Alto and have a place than the 25% of the price in Palo Also? And the commute time is much shorter than from France. It is just that people want to be close as possible to work.
- akgerber 10y ago
  Having a 2-hour commute driving in heavy traffic every day is something many people, myself included, would move across the country to avoid. In general, it's awful for one's relationships and health, and it's awful for the environment (perhaps less so with a Telsa or Chevy Bolt and solar panels, but that's presently an outlier). It might be the right personal choice for some people, but public policy should not be designed so long commutes are the norm.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- sjg007 10y ago
  You can live 10mins away in East Palo Alto and pay less. The big issue is schools. Same with Oakland and San Leandro.
- declan 10y ago
  I'm acquainted with a construction worker who's the foreman for a general contractor working on the mid-peninsula. Current projects include single family homes in Palo Alto, Atherton, Woodside, and Menlo Park. The foreman makes $44/hour without health insurance and is about to close on a house in Hollister. Hollister to Atherton is 68 miles. To get to Atherton by 8am tomorrow, Google says he should leave at 5:50am: https://goo.gl/maps/bfSBp4vFtJQ2 https://goo.gl/maps/bfSBp4vFtJQ2 If cheaper housing could be built on the peninsula--where there happens to be lots of low-density housing and open space!--he could live closer to work and the 101 and the 280 would have one less vehicle twice a day. But for reasons we all know, this will not happen. PS: The structured wiring guys on this project are driving in from Tracy in the Central Valley and staying at a hotel on the mid-peninsula. That commute is even worse than Hollister. Google estimates it at 2hrs 40min one-way (!) for an 8am arrival time tomorrow.

For the price of an okay family home in an okay neighborhood of Palo Alto you can buy a villa in the South of France... I'm still not sure how to process that.

by iaw 10y ago

For the price of an okay family home in an okay neighborhood of Palo Alto you can buy a villa in the South of France... I'm still not sure how to process that.

x0x0 10y ago

The whole thing really puts the lie to the myth engineers in the valley are well paid. In the land of million dollar entry level homes, even $200k of income (!!!) means you will struggle to own somewhere to live. That barely qualifies you for a $1m loan, and that with a $100k downpayment. I'm aware you can commute eg an hour plus each way from easy bay and find homes for $700k (a bargain!), but something has gone wildly wrong when supposedly well-paid employees can't afford an entry level home in the city they work in.

umanwizard 10y ago
Do most people own their own home in New York, London, or Paris? I don't think so... Where are you getting the idea that it's normal to be able to own a home in a major desirable city and global economic hub?
- ones_and_zeros 10y ago
  Owning a home and raising a family without killing yourself commuting is basically the American dream.
  - umanwizard 10y ago
    And you can still do that in 99% of the country, just not major global cities like SF.
  - staticint 10y ago
    The modern American Dream, perhaps. The historic American Dream was a marketing campaign centred around enjoying the long commute in your American made automobile.
- x0x0 10y ago
  nyc is significantly cheaper. Three minutes on trulia found multiple yorkville/ues 1bed doorman units under 6 minutes from the 86th st express stop for under $650k. Add in not needing a car and it's a lot cheaper than living in sf/peninsula.
  - randycupertino 10y ago
    Agree- my girlfriend's sister just rented a nice 2br on the UES for $2500 a month. I can't get anything close to that in the same price range in SF, even for a 1br.
  - rashkov 10y ago
    Don't forget the maintenance on that apartment, which is at least 1500 a month. 650k is extremely low, even then. I've only seen that on properties with a large tax abatement that is set to expire, or the land isn't owned by the building and the lease on the land will expire in 10 years. I wish you were right, but New York isn't that kind, even compared to SF.
    - infinotize 10y ago
      Yep - in NYC, there are no public deals. The price always has literally everything baked into it. If it seems low, there is definitely a good reason.
    - ceras 10y ago
      As someone who is currently planning to buy in Manhattan, $650k for a 1br in Yorkville sounds about right. Quick Streeteasy eyeballing around 86 suggests the maintenance need not be $1500 either -- you either get a fancy elevator building at that price, or you get a walkup at a lower price than $650k.
    - x0x0 10y ago
      You're wrong, as glancing at the mentioned sites will show you. Also, you pay property taxes (higher on new purchases), maintenance, and so forth in CA too.
xienze 10y ago
> The whole thing really puts the lie to the myth engineers in the valley are well paid. In the land of million dollar entry level homes, even $200k of income (!!!) means you will struggle to own somewhere to live. No, they are _very_ well paid. Anywhere else in the country (minus NYC I guess), they're getting half as much. Simply paying Bay Area developers more money isn't going to make housing more affordable -- what do you think will happen to housing prices when even _more_ money is floating around in the local economy?
- douche 10y ago
  Elsewhere they are paid half as much, but living expenses in SF are, say, four times higher, or worse. I can rent a whole 2000 sqft house here, under an hour north of Boston, for about $1500/month. I hear that's the going rate for a cardboard box out in the Bay.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  > Anywhere else in the country (minus NYC I guess), they're getting half as much. Odd, when I was actually willing to sniff around for jobs in the Bay Area I couldn't find anyone willing to come close to doubling my Dallas salary. As far as I can tell, unless you can score a job at Google or Facebook your statement isn't accurate.

titanomachy 10y ago

You could buy an island villa in Greece for next to nothing. No work there, though. Not sure exactly point you're making.

overcast 10y ago
Work remotely. All of these companies exist virtually on the internet.
- ameen 10y ago
  You won't be paid as much, though. And get ready for double taxation.
  - overcast 10y ago
    Versus what, spending half your pay on rent, and your life in commutes?
- Johnny555 10y ago
  Yet few will allow full-time telecommuting - the big tech companies even ship their employees 40 miles south from SF every on a bus because they want them in the office.

pkaye 10y ago

You do realize one can live an hour drive from Palo Alto and have a place than the 25% of the price in Palo Also? And the commute time is much shorter than from France. It is just that people want to be close as possible to work.

akgerber 10y ago
Having a 2-hour commute driving in heavy traffic every day is something many people, myself included, would move across the country to avoid. In general, it's awful for one's relationships and health, and it's awful for the environment (perhaps less so with a Telsa or Chevy Bolt and solar panels, but that's presently an outlier). It might be the right personal choice for some people, but public policy should not be designed so long commutes are the norm.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
sjg007 10y ago
You can live 10mins away in East Palo Alto and pay less. The big issue is schools. Same with Oakland and San Leandro.
declan 10y ago
I'm acquainted with a construction worker who's the foreman for a general contractor working on the mid-peninsula. Current projects include single family homes in Palo Alto, Atherton, Woodside, and Menlo Park. The foreman makes $44/hour without health insurance and is about to close on a house in Hollister. Hollister to Atherton is 68 miles. To get to Atherton by 8am tomorrow, Google says he should leave at 5:50am: https://goo.gl/maps/bfSBp4vFtJQ2 https://goo.gl/maps/bfSBp4vFtJQ2 If cheaper housing could be built on the peninsula--where there happens to be lots of low-density housing and open space!--he could live closer to work and the 101 and the 280 would have one less vehicle twice a day. But for reasons we all know, this will not happen. PS: The structured wiring guys on this project are driving in from Tracy in the Central Valley and staying at a hotel on the mid-peninsula. That commute is even worse than Hollister. Google estimates it at 2hrs 40min one-way (!) for an 8am arrival time tomorrow.