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I haven't heard a good political-economic explanation of how a universal basic income that actually finances the living expenses of a large portion of the popul

I haven't heard a good political-economic explanation of how a universal basic income that actually finances the living expenses of a large portion of the population avoids spiraling into yet another welfare program. The point of a UBI in the academic literature is to enable dismantling of high-overhead welfare state in favor of a low-overhead and higher-level grant (check out eg the overhead of Social Security Retirement income vs Social Security Disability income), but that tradeoff is somehow never actually offered.

afterburner 10y ago
The actual point of UBI is to address the coming employment scarcity: labour's value's fall and capital/automation dominating everything. The efficiency vs today's welfare systems is simply a pitch (and not necessarily an inaccurate one).
ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "I haven't heard a good political-economic explanation of how a universal basic income that actually finances the living expenses of a large portion of the population avoids spiraling into yet another welfare program. The point of a UBI in the academic literature is to enable dismantling of high-overhead welfare state in favor of a low-overhead and higher-level grant (check out eg the overhead of Social Security Retirement income vs Social Security Disability income), but that tradeoff is somehow never actually offered." Two main points: 1. UBI is a form of welfare, but if you're concerned about UBI spiraling into a welfare program in the sense of means-tested welfare, why would it? If everyone gets the same, and the basic needs are all met (including free education and free healthcare) the only reason it would change into a means-tested program is if the government couldn't afford it. Which leads us onto point 2... 2. When it comes to financing UBI, it's best not to do so through taxation. Instead you do so through money creation. At the moment the system used in countries like the UK and US for money creation effectively is a money-making venture for the banking system. By moving to debt-free money and using UBI as the vehicle for new money to reach the system, you minimise the risk of UBI contributing to government debt. Lastly, there is another way to not use UBI but still tackle the same issues, and that's to make the basics of life free for all. However, I'd suggest that would require coordinated effort on the international level, UBI seems like a more realistic transitionary approach.

afterburner 10y ago

The actual point of UBI is to address the coming employment scarcity: labour's value's fall and capital/automation dominating everything. The efficiency vs today's welfare systems is simply a pitch (and not necessarily an inaccurate one).

ZenoArrow 10y ago

> "I haven't heard a good political-economic explanation of how a universal basic income that actually finances the living expenses of a large portion of the population avoids spiraling into yet another welfare program. The point of a UBI in the academic literature is to enable dismantling of high-overhead welfare state in favor of a low-overhead and higher-level grant (check out eg the overhead of Social Security Retirement income vs Social Security Disability income), but that tradeoff is somehow never actually offered." Two main points: 1. UBI is a form of welfare, but if you're concerned about UBI spiraling into a welfare program in the sense of means-tested welfare, why would it? If everyone gets the same, and the basic needs are all met (including free education and free healthcare) the only reason it would change into a means-tested program is if the government couldn't afford it. Which leads us onto point 2... 2. When it comes to financing UBI, it's best not to do so through taxation. Instead you do so through money creation. At the moment the system used in countries like the UK and US for money creation effectively is a money-making venture for the banking system. By moving to debt-free money and using UBI as the vehicle for new money to reach the system, you minimise the risk of UBI contributing to government debt. Lastly, there is another way to not use UBI but still tackle the same issues, and that's to make the basics of life free for all. However, I'd suggest that would require coordinated effort on the international level, UBI seems like a more realistic transitionary approach.