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That's a very transactional view of other people if you're saying it's investment with expectation of return? If you mean it's literally an investment as in ene

That's a very transactional view of other people if you're saying it's investment with expectation of return? If you mean it's literally an investment as in energy and time. Is it really all about payoffs? It may be true. It just seems sad. I'd rather lie to myself that it's not that.

11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
You get a payoff for everything you do, whether you know it or not. It feels really good to help my kids and see them do well. It feels good to help a coworker find a bug that's been dogging them. I feel self-satisfied after getting a thank you for holding a door open for someone. Those positive feelings are all payoffs for my behavior. But I feel awkward trying to talk to a stranger. No payoff. So I generally don't do it.
- marmot777 10y ago
  Fair enough. It sounds selfish as in I have a son and I'd like to think I don't help him for a payoff but I could be delusional. Or it could be the two things don't contradict each other. Let's say you randomly pay for someone's coffee at a coffee shop and they say what the fuck's your problem? Stalker. No, they smile warmly and thank you. You share a laugh. You made their day, they made yours. It's not zero sum. Nobody lost anything. Well, except you, some cash. I forgot to ask do you ever feel good energy from a stranger and have this amazing interaction even if it lasts 3 minutes? It does happen. I'd hazard to say that the sum total of little interactions and individual energy projection is the gestalt of a place and time. Even a room has a vibe we've all felt. You can tell if a room feels tense, a sidewalk is full of anxious people, that was love I just felt. I'm sure there's a better word for this than gestalt, btw.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
    do you ever feel good energy from a stranger and have this amazing interaction even if it lasts 3 minutes? I thought for a while to recall, and, well, not really. There have been circumstances where some external situation affected both me and a stranger in some way and we mutually complained or otherwise acknowledged it. It was a connection based on a shared experience, rather than being all that random. Maybe that counts. But you have to be open in order for those more serendipitous instant connections to happen that you enjoy, and I'm just not open. It's an attribute of my Aspergers-induced introversion, I think.
    - marmot777 10y ago
      Ah, well, impressive level of self awareness. I exaggerated a bit too much that I overdid my point. The 3 minutes example is extremely rare and it's not acceptable to ask someone to trade their personal boundaries for a free cup of coffee. But I'd say we all could put out just a little bit better energy than we do, just a bit, with some effort, maybe it even becomes easier over time. For example, I make a concerted effort to make eye contact and smile at the check out line person no matter how I feel. It seems like a small thing but acknowledging people who pass in and out of our field in any given day, with head up eye level, is where the action is. I try to see people when I'm out and about.
      - 11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
        I'll grant you this: There are parts of the US where I've found it much easier to be heads-up friendly than others. It seems to be in the demeanor of the general population, and smaller, more out of the way places seem to be more friendly, in general. I'm really flying by the seat of my pants on this one, but perhaps it has to do with the variety of people you meet on a given day. The less variety, the more likely the people you meet are like you and the more comfortable you could be in engaging them. A large variety, and you just can't be sure what you're going to get, and the risk that it's a cold shoulder is too high.
        marmot777 10y ago
        I'm not even talking about striking up a conversation or even saying hi to everyone you pass. :-) More like be there in that moment when an opportunity arises and try to project more good energy into the routine interactions. There's a payoff for that that. It feels good even if it only works sometimes. It's easier said then done as I'm always tempted to look down, passing through. I practice, fail, fail again then maybe get into the groove better the next day. No big deal. Fail isn't quite the right word as there's no real cost for trying to be a source of good energy even if a lot of people aren't trying.
        marmot777 10y ago
        One more important thing about this is that good energy tends to draw good energy. So you might notice that the world seems like a better place because better things happen on days when you put good energy out. The difference is palpable. It's the obvious things such as I'm less likely to experience rudeness from others but some far less obvious changes that seem out of reach of my energy, such as I'm less likely to be cut off in traffic type of bad experience. I'm not sure what if understanding how this process works even matters. It just works consistently.

11thEarlOfMar 10y ago

You get a payoff for everything you do, whether you know it or not. It feels really good to help my kids and see them do well. It feels good to help a coworker find a bug that's been dogging them. I feel self-satisfied after getting a thank you for holding a door open for someone. Those positive feelings are all payoffs for my behavior. But I feel awkward trying to talk to a stranger. No payoff. So I generally don't do it.

marmot777 10y ago
Fair enough. It sounds selfish as in I have a son and I'd like to think I don't help him for a payoff but I could be delusional. Or it could be the two things don't contradict each other. Let's say you randomly pay for someone's coffee at a coffee shop and they say what the fuck's your problem? Stalker. No, they smile warmly and thank you. You share a laugh. You made their day, they made yours. It's not zero sum. Nobody lost anything. Well, except you, some cash. I forgot to ask do you ever feel good energy from a stranger and have this amazing interaction even if it lasts 3 minutes? It does happen. I'd hazard to say that the sum total of little interactions and individual energy projection is the gestalt of a place and time. Even a room has a vibe we've all felt. You can tell if a room feels tense, a sidewalk is full of anxious people, that was love I just felt. I'm sure there's a better word for this than gestalt, btw.
- 11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
  do you ever feel good energy from a stranger and have this amazing interaction even if it lasts 3 minutes? I thought for a while to recall, and, well, not really. There have been circumstances where some external situation affected both me and a stranger in some way and we mutually complained or otherwise acknowledged it. It was a connection based on a shared experience, rather than being all that random. Maybe that counts. But you have to be open in order for those more serendipitous instant connections to happen that you enjoy, and I'm just not open. It's an attribute of my Aspergers-induced introversion, I think.
  - marmot777 10y ago
    Ah, well, impressive level of self awareness. I exaggerated a bit too much that I overdid my point. The 3 minutes example is extremely rare and it's not acceptable to ask someone to trade their personal boundaries for a free cup of coffee. But I'd say we all could put out just a little bit better energy than we do, just a bit, with some effort, maybe it even becomes easier over time. For example, I make a concerted effort to make eye contact and smile at the check out line person no matter how I feel. It seems like a small thing but acknowledging people who pass in and out of our field in any given day, with head up eye level, is where the action is. I try to see people when I'm out and about.
    - 11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
      I'll grant you this: There are parts of the US where I've found it much easier to be heads-up friendly than others. It seems to be in the demeanor of the general population, and smaller, more out of the way places seem to be more friendly, in general. I'm really flying by the seat of my pants on this one, but perhaps it has to do with the variety of people you meet on a given day. The less variety, the more likely the people you meet are like you and the more comfortable you could be in engaging them. A large variety, and you just can't be sure what you're going to get, and the risk that it's a cold shoulder is too high.
      - marmot777 10y ago
        I'm not even talking about striking up a conversation or even saying hi to everyone you pass. :-) More like be there in that moment when an opportunity arises and try to project more good energy into the routine interactions. There's a payoff for that that. It feels good even if it only works sometimes. It's easier said then done as I'm always tempted to look down, passing through. I practice, fail, fail again then maybe get into the groove better the next day. No big deal. Fail isn't quite the right word as there's no real cost for trying to be a source of good energy even if a lot of people aren't trying.
      - marmot777 10y ago
        One more important thing about this is that good energy tends to draw good energy. So you might notice that the world seems like a better place because better things happen on days when you put good energy out. The difference is palpable. It's the obvious things such as I'm less likely to experience rudeness from others but some far less obvious changes that seem out of reach of my energy, such as I'm less likely to be cut off in traffic type of bad experience. I'm not sure what if understanding how this process works even matters. It just works consistently.