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"When I skip big gatherings of strangers, I’m not just being a little rude to the individual people around me, I’m being uncivil in a larger sense. The more we

"When I skip big gatherings of strangers, I’m not just being a little rude to the individual people around me, I’m being uncivil in a larger sense. The more we isolate ourselves from new people, the more isolated and segregated our society is likely to become" What is the objective justification for calling skipping a gathering of strangers rude? Who is to say that a society where people are more apart won't turn out better, once people get over the antiquated notion that they MUST be connected or they are somehow defective? "There are many excuses for failing to conduct ourselves with courtesy, for avoiding gatherings and conversations we don’t think we will enjoy, or for just putting on our pajamas and staying home. Too many of them boil down to just that one thing: We care more about ourselves than about the needs of others. That’s not about introversion. It’s just an ordinary version of selfishness." Perhaps an many introverts are introverted because they had social interactions that were traumatic, and they don't trust others to reciprocate if they give? Most of the introverts I've gotten to know are exceedingly kind and loyal once they view you as a legitimate human being.

marmot777 10y ago
Skipping a gathering is not rude unless the purpose of the gathering is to honor someone that you care about. Say a birthday party, wedding, that kind of thing. It's not only rude to not come, it's rude to be a grump sitting in the corner too. Because it's about the two people getting married. Yeah, it's rude to not have fun at an event like that. Have to try at least and not complain even the slightest bit. Now at your party, cry if if you want to I think is the appropriate philosophy. I'd say those are the only obligatory events.
noobermin 10y ago
>Perhaps an many introverts are introverted because they had social interactions that were traumatic, and they don't trust others to reciprocate if they give? I really don't think that is the case, introverts aren't "broken angels who just need to be won over," they have completely different internal motivations.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  Besides... implying that extroverts don't have traumatic social experiences? Statistically speaking, extroverts should have many times more such bad social experiences simply because they have many more total social experiences. If that's your argument, then it boils down to extroverts evidently being able to "get over it" much better than introverts.
  - smsm42 10y ago
    I think the point is not that introverts don't have bad experiences, but that it's not those experiences that make them introverts, being an introvert is just a quality like being a right- or left-handed.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      Sorry, I'm agreeing with the parent comment and adding a corollary that the grandparent comment implies that extroverts don't suffer social trauma.
  - xabotage 10y ago
    In my case at least, I absolutely believe the ability to "get over" bad social experiences can turn someone into an introvert or extrovert over their lifetimes. For example, no amount of conscious effort allows me to let go of bad social encounters, so instead I have a treasure chest of repressed memories over several years (my brain likes to pull one out at random late at night just to torture me sometimes). Further social interaction always puts me at risk of accumulating more bad experiences that can't be let go, so as a result I have to work extra hard whenever I talk to strangers or acquaintances to overcome the anxiety and "perform well". Around close family where I can be myself, social interaction is not exhausting and I feel like an extrovert. In other words, perhaps inability to "get over it" leads to social anxiety which leads to taxing social interactions which leads to introversion (...which leads to suffering). Doesn't necessarily explain introversion for all people, though.
    - 10y ago
tbrownaw 10y ago
Perhaps an many introverts are introverted because they had social interactions that were traumatic, and they don't trust others to reciprocate if they give? Most of the introverts I've gotten to know are exceedingly kind and loyal once they view you as a legitimate human being. No. Introversion is not damage. Introversion is not about lack of trust. It is entirely possible to be "exceedingly kind and loyal", and yet also find socializing to be tiring and not really enjoyable.
ticviking 10y ago
You'll note the author phrased it as "uncivil" not rude.
smsm42 10y ago
> Perhaps an many introverts are introverted because they had social interactions that were traumatic I don't think so, at least not on my experience. I think just some people have limits on how much social interaction they can do - just as some people have limits on how much they can run or lift - and closer to the limit, harder it becomes. If somebody invited you to run a marathon, you may happily accept or you may politely decline if you are not a big runner. If somebody would invite you to a party where you have to bring a grand piano to the top of the hill just for the fun of it - you may enthusiastically accept or decline if you're not a fan of lifting grand pianos. For some introverts social interaction, especially with a lot of previously unknown people, is work - and one may be just not inclined to do that amount of hard work that day. > We care more about ourselves than about the needs of others. This is a basic truth, everybody does that, except a very few people we call "saints". Everybody who doesn't give up all their possessions beyond basic physical subsistence, does not live under the bridge and spends at least a minute of their day for anything other than satisfying needs of others is "selfish" this way - and it's completely normal and IMHO one doesn't have to feel eternally guilty about it.

marmot777 10y ago

Skipping a gathering is not rude unless the purpose of the gathering is to honor someone that you care about. Say a birthday party, wedding, that kind of thing. It's not only rude to not come, it's rude to be a grump sitting in the corner too. Because it's about the two people getting married. Yeah, it's rude to not have fun at an event like that. Have to try at least and not complain even the slightest bit. Now at your party, cry if if you want to I think is the appropriate philosophy. I'd say those are the only obligatory events.

noobermin 10y ago

>Perhaps an many introverts are introverted because they had social interactions that were traumatic, and they don't trust others to reciprocate if they give? I really don't think that is the case, introverts aren't "broken angels who just need to be won over," they have completely different internal motivations.

ethanbond 10y ago
Besides... implying that extroverts don't have traumatic social experiences? Statistically speaking, extroverts should have many times more such bad social experiences simply because they have many more total social experiences. If that's your argument, then it boils down to extroverts evidently being able to "get over it" much better than introverts.
- smsm42 10y ago
  I think the point is not that introverts don't have bad experiences, but that it's not those experiences that make them introverts, being an introvert is just a quality like being a right- or left-handed.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    Sorry, I'm agreeing with the parent comment and adding a corollary that the grandparent comment implies that extroverts don't suffer social trauma.
- xabotage 10y ago
  In my case at least, I absolutely believe the ability to "get over" bad social experiences can turn someone into an introvert or extrovert over their lifetimes. For example, no amount of conscious effort allows me to let go of bad social encounters, so instead I have a treasure chest of repressed memories over several years (my brain likes to pull one out at random late at night just to torture me sometimes). Further social interaction always puts me at risk of accumulating more bad experiences that can't be let go, so as a result I have to work extra hard whenever I talk to strangers or acquaintances to overcome the anxiety and "perform well". Around close family where I can be myself, social interaction is not exhausting and I feel like an extrovert. In other words, perhaps inability to "get over it" leads to social anxiety which leads to taxing social interactions which leads to introversion (...which leads to suffering). Doesn't necessarily explain introversion for all people, though.
  - 10y ago

tbrownaw 10y ago

Perhaps an many introverts are introverted because they had social interactions that were traumatic, and they don't trust others to reciprocate if they give? Most of the introverts I've gotten to know are exceedingly kind and loyal once they view you as a legitimate human being. No. Introversion is not damage. Introversion is not about lack of trust. It is entirely possible to be "exceedingly kind and loyal", and yet also find socializing to be tiring and not really enjoyable.

ticviking 10y ago

You'll note the author phrased it as "uncivil" not rude.

smsm42 10y ago

> Perhaps an many introverts are introverted because they had social interactions that were traumatic I don't think so, at least not on my experience. I think just some people have limits on how much social interaction they can do - just as some people have limits on how much they can run or lift - and closer to the limit, harder it becomes. If somebody invited you to run a marathon, you may happily accept or you may politely decline if you are not a big runner. If somebody would invite you to a party where you have to bring a grand piano to the top of the hill just for the fun of it - you may enthusiastically accept or decline if you're not a fan of lifting grand pianos. For some introverts social interaction, especially with a lot of previously unknown people, is work - and one may be just not inclined to do that amount of hard work that day. > We care more about ourselves than about the needs of others. This is a basic truth, everybody does that, except a very few people we call "saints". Everybody who doesn't give up all their possessions beyond basic physical subsistence, does not live under the bridge and spends at least a minute of their day for anything other than satisfying needs of others is "selfish" this way - and it's completely normal and IMHO one doesn't have to feel eternally guilty about it.