5 ms·

The wage for a UPS driver is somewhere around $11 an hour, with seasonal temporary help making less. Most of them are part time drivers, so they have to work a

by Noos 10y ago

The wage for a UPS driver is somewhere around $11 an hour, with seasonal temporary help making less. Most of them are part time drivers, so they have to work a second job to make ends meet. Surprisingly, if you pay people crap and force them to look for new employment while working for you due to low wages, no hours, and poor advancement opportunities, you tend to get bad service. And if you rely on seasonal temps you WILL get bad service, as they have little loyalty to you beyond the month or two you pay them. But no, first answer is always "remove people" I guess. Like you even can, no robot is going to be able to do a UPS job any time soon.

bunderbunder 10y ago
Huh. I actually find that figure really hard to believe. 17-ish years ago I got a temp seasonal job at one of UPS's air hubs, and they paid me $8 per hour. $8 in then-money is equivalent to more than $11 in now-money. So you're saying I was better paid as a seasonal temp than people who are much higher in UPS's pecking order than that are nowadays. Now it being part time, yeah, I believe that. Pretty much everyone in that facility was working about 30h/wk.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  Very possible. Median real wage growth (inflation adjusted) have been sluggish post recession, and considering the explosive rise in wages in certain knowledge sectors, that must be offset by negative real wage growth sectors elsewhere.
  - bunderbunder 10y ago
    Yeah, but even beyond that, based on my understanding of the situation, $11/hr now would also mean that the nominal wage of drivers has also gone down over that same time period.
alistairSH 10y ago
Source for those wages? Anecdote: I have several high school friends who drive/deliver for UPS, it's a union shop, they appear to be reasonably well paid (both own homes in typical middle-class neighborhoods, take vacations, etc).
- jonknee 10y ago
  They are pretty well paid, but it's probably not the drivers doing the damage. Drivers don't load their trucks.
  - alistairSH 10y ago
    That's definitely true. The trucks are loaded in the early AM, so the drivers can hit the road ASAP. Does make me wonder what surveillance systems are in place in the warehouse and loading areas? Or if that would even make a difference? I have no idea, never worked in a warehouse.
    - asddddd 10y ago
      Quite likely they get damaged even before that, while they are on semi trucks (feeders). Assuming that loaders don't realize these are vulnerable to crush damage, they could get stacked on top of each other at the bottom of a loaded semi with moderately heavy stuff on top. Judging from boxed bikes I've seen, there is minimal or no padding, so this could easily result in damage. Not sure if it's official UPS policy, but it's much less likely for a presumably-expensive TV to end up stacked like that. Surveillance - that's what supervisors are for. Really though, you have 800-1000 packages to load into 3-4 cars over 3-5 hours. When you have 20 of these bikes arrive on the conveyor belt in a 30 minute window and nowhere to put them (since it's hours from shift end and you can't put them in the delivery truck yet), they get dealt with fast and not so gently. That could easily mean a 3-4 ft drop onto concrete, and a supervisor would be unlikely to care since they know the pressure to go fast. The official policy is "hand to surface" for every package, but in reality you have to work at a pace where this is impractical - so it's ignored apart from egregious abuse of packages. edit: as for discussion elsewhere here about proper packaging, here's FedEx guidelines/testing: http://www.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/PKG_Testing_Under150Lbs.pdf http://www.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/PKG_Testing_Under150Lbs... Some of the criteria, such as dropping the package 10x from a 30" height, might seem absurd if you haven't seen how the sausage is made. It really isn't.
greglindahl 10y ago
Huh, Google surfaces pages that claim it's nearly 3X that, $30/hour. https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+driver+wage https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+driver+wage I usually see UPS drivers cited as an example of a unionized, middle-class job.
asddddd 10y ago
Here's the current agreement between UPS and Teamsters: https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/6161478090_master_final.pdf https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/6161478090_mas... See articles 22, 40, and 41. $11 is current part-time package handler pay (preload), drivers are almost exclusively (with a few exceptions) full time employees, and max out at close to $30/hr. Locals can and do negotiate this higher, that's the national minimum. Also, a huge priority for the union is ensuring that UPS doesn't start using part time drivers instead of FT drivers. Seasonals shouldn't make less, unless you're counting the $125 union initiation fee that everyone has to pay - a bit silly that it applies to them, probably a great money maker.
Tinyyy 10y ago
Their pay is what it is because of economics. And they will get replaced if they keep up with the poor service, because of economics. The worse your service, the easier it is for a robot to replace you. It's not possible for a individual, a corporation or even a government to go against economical forces. Then again, don't get me wrong, I do think that the government needs to do more wealth redistribution.
- Tinyyy 10y ago
  Hey I don't care if you downvote me, but can you at least respond so I know why?
XorNot 10y ago
Isn't it also the incorporation of metrics into the delivery drivers schedules? As in, those trucks have been heavily wired with remote telemetry for everything, all of which goes to the local regional managers. Who get told "we need an X% increase in productivity" - so they look at their metrics and come up with some idiot conclusion like "drivers just need to spend on average X seconds less per delivery...so I'm going to start measuring people by how long they're stopped making a delivery and have reviews when they are stopped too long". Meanwhile, the delivery driver who has a route full of apartment buildings without easy truck access gets screwed.
ekianjo 10y ago
Civil servants in developed countries are far from being paid crap yet they deliver the worst services ever. This is rather about the workplace culture than the pay.

by Noos 10y ago

bunderbunder 10y ago

Huh. I actually find that figure really hard to believe. 17-ish years ago I got a temp seasonal job at one of UPS's air hubs, and they paid me $8 per hour. $8 in then-money is equivalent to more than $11 in now-money. So you're saying I was better paid as a seasonal temp than people who are much higher in UPS's pecking order than that are nowadays. Now it being part time, yeah, I believe that. Pretty much everyone in that facility was working about 30h/wk.

hkmurakami 10y ago
Very possible. Median real wage growth (inflation adjusted) have been sluggish post recession, and considering the explosive rise in wages in certain knowledge sectors, that must be offset by negative real wage growth sectors elsewhere.
- bunderbunder 10y ago
  Yeah, but even beyond that, based on my understanding of the situation, $11/hr now would also mean that the nominal wage of drivers has also gone down over that same time period.

alistairSH 10y ago

Source for those wages? Anecdote: I have several high school friends who drive/deliver for UPS, it's a union shop, they appear to be reasonably well paid (both own homes in typical middle-class neighborhoods, take vacations, etc).

jonknee 10y ago
They are pretty well paid, but it's probably not the drivers doing the damage. Drivers don't load their trucks.
- alistairSH 10y ago
  That's definitely true. The trucks are loaded in the early AM, so the drivers can hit the road ASAP. Does make me wonder what surveillance systems are in place in the warehouse and loading areas? Or if that would even make a difference? I have no idea, never worked in a warehouse.
  - asddddd 10y ago
    Quite likely they get damaged even before that, while they are on semi trucks (feeders). Assuming that loaders don't realize these are vulnerable to crush damage, they could get stacked on top of each other at the bottom of a loaded semi with moderately heavy stuff on top. Judging from boxed bikes I've seen, there is minimal or no padding, so this could easily result in damage. Not sure if it's official UPS policy, but it's much less likely for a presumably-expensive TV to end up stacked like that. Surveillance - that's what supervisors are for. Really though, you have 800-1000 packages to load into 3-4 cars over 3-5 hours. When you have 20 of these bikes arrive on the conveyor belt in a 30 minute window and nowhere to put them (since it's hours from shift end and you can't put them in the delivery truck yet), they get dealt with fast and not so gently. That could easily mean a 3-4 ft drop onto concrete, and a supervisor would be unlikely to care since they know the pressure to go fast. The official policy is "hand to surface" for every package, but in reality you have to work at a pace where this is impractical - so it's ignored apart from egregious abuse of packages. edit: as for discussion elsewhere here about proper packaging, here's FedEx guidelines/testing: http://www.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/PKG_Testing_Under150Lbs.pdf http://www.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/PKG_Testing_Under150Lbs... Some of the criteria, such as dropping the package 10x from a 30" height, might seem absurd if you haven't seen how the sausage is made. It really isn't.

greglindahl 10y ago

Huh, Google surfaces pages that claim it's nearly 3X that, $30/hour. https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+driver+wage https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+driver+wage I usually see UPS drivers cited as an example of a unionized, middle-class job.

asddddd 10y ago

Here's the current agreement between UPS and Teamsters: https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/6161478090_master_final.pdf https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/6161478090_mas... See articles 22, 40, and 41. $11 is current part-time package handler pay (preload), drivers are almost exclusively (with a few exceptions) full time employees, and max out at close to $30/hr. Locals can and do negotiate this higher, that's the national minimum. Also, a huge priority for the union is ensuring that UPS doesn't start using part time drivers instead of FT drivers. Seasonals shouldn't make less, unless you're counting the $125 union initiation fee that everyone has to pay - a bit silly that it applies to them, probably a great money maker.

Tinyyy 10y ago

Their pay is what it is because of economics. And they will get replaced if they keep up with the poor service, because of economics. The worse your service, the easier it is for a robot to replace you. It's not possible for a individual, a corporation or even a government to go against economical forces. Then again, don't get me wrong, I do think that the government needs to do more wealth redistribution.

Tinyyy 10y ago
Hey I don't care if you downvote me, but can you at least respond so I know why?

XorNot 10y ago

Isn't it also the incorporation of metrics into the delivery drivers schedules? As in, those trucks have been heavily wired with remote telemetry for everything, all of which goes to the local regional managers. Who get told "we need an X% increase in productivity" - so they look at their metrics and come up with some idiot conclusion like "drivers just need to spend on average X seconds less per delivery...so I'm going to start measuring people by how long they're stopped making a delivery and have reviews when they are stopped too long". Meanwhile, the delivery driver who has a route full of apartment buildings without easy truck access gets screwed.

ekianjo 10y ago

Civil servants in developed countries are far from being paid crap yet they deliver the worst services ever. This is rather about the workplace culture than the pay.