3 ms·

Thanks for the feedback. It might make sense to remove the free trial then because the main feature in it is just parts requests which people can now test with

Thanks for the feedback. It might make sense to remove the free trial then because the main feature in it is just parts requests which people can now test with this new InstaPart feature.

akiselev 10y ago
If you have other killer features in the trial then just provide discounts for parts (say $19 during the trial) and remove the dark pattern instead of removing trials all together. I actually do need this service now and $29 per part is a drop in the bucket, especially since a lot of parts I need have nonstandard footprints. I can check and correct a footprint against a datasheet much faster than I can draw it so there's little risk to my deadline but the trial dark pattern is very off putting even if $300 is nothing compared to revenue. I'd love a service like this but it won't save me more than 2-4 days of work during a 2-3 month long contract so soft concerns like this can easily keep me from paying for a product.
- Kiro 10y ago
  It's no dark pattern. Stop this nonsense.
  - akiselev 10y ago
    From [1]: "A Dark Pattern is a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things, such as buying insurance with their purchase or signing up for recurring bills." This very clearly IS a dark pattern. [1] http://darkpatterns.org/ http://darkpatterns.org/
    - Kiro 10y ago
      > trick users The important bit here. There's no tricking going on. It's all clearly stated when signing up for the Free Trial. You're just being obnoxious.
      - akiselev 10y ago
        Yes there is trickry. A "Free Trial" does not mean 10 days for $300 which is what it essentially is whenever someone forgets to cancel. This is the same technique slimy online businesses (i.e. credit reporting agencies) use all the time along with making it hard to cancel. They even made it quarterly so that they can make three months off of you instead of one. If you think I'm being obnoxious you should perhaps reflect on your own behavior. Others in this thread clearly agree that this is a dark pattern.
        Kiro 10y ago
        I think they are wrong just like I think you are. That's no argument. You're defaming one of the most beautiful services that has ever come out of YC. A service that will help the life of so many hardware hackers and professionals. The pricing model for InstaPart is the most noble I've ever seen and you're complaining about them being predators and dark pattern practioneers?
mappu 10y ago
At $DAYJOB we run a SaaS with a free trial, and immediately start billing for the following month after the trial expires. However, we don't ask for credit card details until the first payment, so, there's no risk that a user would be charged accidentally. It also reduces onboarding friction as a credit card isn't required for signup. If a user doesn't want to continue after the trial, we advise them to disregard the invoice.
sandGorgon 10y ago
I would suggest you to continue with this. There is another reason that is done - evaluation is done by engineers and purchase decisions needs finance. What you want to do is move the process upfront where the approvals are in place by the time the trial ends. This is why this is pretty standard practice - keep sending reminders every week and also the day before you are going to charge. I (an engineer) have gotten subscriptions for things that would never have gone through if I had to go through and file a report on why this should be bought. Also, not making a credit card mandatory for sign up will get you non-serious customers. You will need to have infrastructure costs to support a large number of these.

Thanks for the feedback. It might make sense to remove the free trial then because the main feature in it is just parts requests which people can now test with this new InstaPart feature.

akiselev 10y ago

If you have other killer features in the trial then just provide discounts for parts (say $19 during the trial) and remove the dark pattern instead of removing trials all together. I actually do need this service now and $29 per part is a drop in the bucket, especially since a lot of parts I need have nonstandard footprints. I can check and correct a footprint against a datasheet much faster than I can draw it so there's little risk to my deadline but the trial dark pattern is very off putting even if $300 is nothing compared to revenue. I'd love a service like this but it won't save me more than 2-4 days of work during a 2-3 month long contract so soft concerns like this can easily keep me from paying for a product.

Kiro 10y ago
It's no dark pattern. Stop this nonsense.
- akiselev 10y ago
  From [1]: "A Dark Pattern is a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things, such as buying insurance with their purchase or signing up for recurring bills." This very clearly IS a dark pattern. [1] http://darkpatterns.org/ http://darkpatterns.org/
  - Kiro 10y ago
    > trick users The important bit here. There's no tricking going on. It's all clearly stated when signing up for the Free Trial. You're just being obnoxious.
    - akiselev 10y ago
      Yes there is trickry. A "Free Trial" does not mean 10 days for $300 which is what it essentially is whenever someone forgets to cancel. This is the same technique slimy online businesses (i.e. credit reporting agencies) use all the time along with making it hard to cancel. They even made it quarterly so that they can make three months off of you instead of one. If you think I'm being obnoxious you should perhaps reflect on your own behavior. Others in this thread clearly agree that this is a dark pattern.
      - Kiro 10y ago
        I think they are wrong just like I think you are. That's no argument. You're defaming one of the most beautiful services that has ever come out of YC. A service that will help the life of so many hardware hackers and professionals. The pricing model for InstaPart is the most noble I've ever seen and you're complaining about them being predators and dark pattern practioneers?

mappu 10y ago

At $DAYJOB we run a SaaS with a free trial, and immediately start billing for the following month after the trial expires. However, we don't ask for credit card details until the first payment, so, there's no risk that a user would be charged accidentally. It also reduces onboarding friction as a credit card isn't required for signup. If a user doesn't want to continue after the trial, we advise them to disregard the invoice.

sandGorgon 10y ago

I would suggest you to continue with this. There is another reason that is done - evaluation is done by engineers and purchase decisions needs finance. What you want to do is move the process upfront where the approvals are in place by the time the trial ends. This is why this is pretty standard practice - keep sending reminders every week and also the day before you are going to charge. I (an engineer) have gotten subscriptions for things that would never have gone through if I had to go through and file a report on why this should be bought. Also, not making a credit card mandatory for sign up will get you non-serious customers. You will need to have infrastructure costs to support a large number of these.