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> I doubt that multi-millionaire think that they are 'middle class'. Perhaps, but low digit millionaires do think that they're middle class because they've ear

> I doubt that multi-millionaire think that they are 'middle class'. Perhaps, but low digit millionaires do think that they're middle class because they've earned their money across the past 50 years. In that same 50 year span they've seen the actual 'rich' earn about billions instead. Let me give a character construction. You are an engineer. Salary $120k at age 38. Your spouse is also an engineer. Salary $100k at age 38. You both are the inheritors of your parent's estate which includes a pair of $200k pensions, and 2 houses valued at $800k a piece thanks to 20 years of land values rising in your near DC hometown. Now your net worth is 2.0 million and rising. Yet you don't feel like you are 'rich'. Maybe you have kids, can't take 5 vacations a year, and end up comparing yourself to your friends with no kids and greater discretionary income. Maybe because your windfall is from inheritance, you don't think of it as 'yours'. It's a psychological motif, even if its not the economic reality.

rayiner 10y ago
Low millions over 50 years is solidly middle class. That's a couple of teachers saving up responsibly for retirement and paying off their house on time.
- nugget 10y ago
  This point is often lost in the debate over income and wealth. A public school teacher who starts working at 25 y/o and retires 30 years later at 55 y/o with a relatively modest $60k/year pension benefit has effectively retired with a pension value of $1.3 million (using current lifetime annuity rates). Two public school teachers married to each other with a paid-for $500k home (but zero other savings or assets) effectively have a household net worth of $3.1 million. Government retirees with 'high 3' pensions are the every day millionaire next door types of modern society. I know many of them with multi-million dollar pension values and yet most feel solidly working class because it took them decades to earn the pension benefit and all they see is the monthly check.
- dismantlethesun 10y ago
  True. That's what I was implying. It's "easy" to attain that level of net-worth. Easy as in--if you are so lucky enough as bad things do not happen to you and run out your savings, it will compound over decades to become a substantial amount. Then if you do single-inheritance, then your child stands to start emerge into their 30s or 40s, starting off with the same net-worth you have now in your 70s and 80s. It's enough to push them above the middle class boundary, but they will still feel middle class because they grew up with middle class parents and had to work for most their lives. Most people don't realise that if you own 2+ houses, you literally do not need to work; you could manage the properties indirectly and still earn enough income to survive as a small family.
IkmoIkmo 10y ago
> It's a psychological motif, even if its not the economic reality. Absolutely, although it does get a bit silly. At 220k income from salary alone, you're squarely in the top 3% household earners in one of the richest countries on the planet. Hell, take the rental to price ratio ranging from around 6 (Detroit), to 45 (SF), more realistically 16 (Dallas) to New York (35), let's say the average is 25. That $64k annual household income alone would put you in a bracket where 65% of US households earn less than you, without even having to earn a salary. I mean, can you imagine walking into a room of 10 people including yourself, and finding you have a magic necklace (two $800k homes generating rent) that earns you more monthly income than 7 of the other people who likely work quite hard, without barely having to do anything... and on top, if you walk into a room of 100, the income including your actual salaried work earns you more than about 98 of the other people... and still feel'middle' anything? That does sound super silly, until one realizes your point: such people don't mingle deeply in the aforementioned groups of 10 or 100 economically uniformly distributed Americans. They mingle in groups of the top 5%, and feel quite 'middle' there.
- dismantlethesun 10y ago
  > They mingle in groups of the top 5%, and feel quite 'middle' there. I agree. I'd like to propose a thought experiment to anyone listening: how far back in your personal history do you have to go before you find a friend or a close acquaintance that doesn't share a similar life status as you? For me, I have to go back to my friends before grammar school to find anyone where our life paths have diverged so strongly. If success if the norm, then relative success can make you feel middle-classed vis a vi your friends, even when you most certainly are not.

rayiner 10y ago

Low millions over 50 years is solidly middle class. That's a couple of teachers saving up responsibly for retirement and paying off their house on time.

nugget 10y ago
This point is often lost in the debate over income and wealth. A public school teacher who starts working at 25 y/o and retires 30 years later at 55 y/o with a relatively modest $60k/year pension benefit has effectively retired with a pension value of $1.3 million (using current lifetime annuity rates). Two public school teachers married to each other with a paid-for $500k home (but zero other savings or assets) effectively have a household net worth of $3.1 million. Government retirees with 'high 3' pensions are the every day millionaire next door types of modern society. I know many of them with multi-million dollar pension values and yet most feel solidly working class because it took them decades to earn the pension benefit and all they see is the monthly check.
dismantlethesun 10y ago
True. That's what I was implying. It's "easy" to attain that level of net-worth. Easy as in--if you are so lucky enough as bad things do not happen to you and run out your savings, it will compound over decades to become a substantial amount. Then if you do single-inheritance, then your child stands to start emerge into their 30s or 40s, starting off with the same net-worth you have now in your 70s and 80s. It's enough to push them above the middle class boundary, but they will still feel middle class because they grew up with middle class parents and had to work for most their lives. Most people don't realise that if you own 2+ houses, you literally do not need to work; you could manage the properties indirectly and still earn enough income to survive as a small family.

IkmoIkmo 10y ago

> It's a psychological motif, even if its not the economic reality. Absolutely, although it does get a bit silly. At 220k income from salary alone, you're squarely in the top 3% household earners in one of the richest countries on the planet. Hell, take the rental to price ratio ranging from around 6 (Detroit), to 45 (SF), more realistically 16 (Dallas) to New York (35), let's say the average is 25. That $64k annual household income alone would put you in a bracket where 65% of US households earn less than you, without even having to earn a salary. I mean, can you imagine walking into a room of 10 people including yourself, and finding you have a magic necklace (two $800k homes generating rent) that earns you more monthly income than 7 of the other people who likely work quite hard, without barely having to do anything... and on top, if you walk into a room of 100, the income including your actual salaried work earns you more than about 98 of the other people... and still feel'middle' anything? That does sound super silly, until one realizes your point: such people don't mingle deeply in the aforementioned groups of 10 or 100 economically uniformly distributed Americans. They mingle in groups of the top 5%, and feel quite 'middle' there.

dismantlethesun 10y ago
> They mingle in groups of the top 5%, and feel quite 'middle' there. I agree. I'd like to propose a thought experiment to anyone listening: how far back in your personal history do you have to go before you find a friend or a close acquaintance that doesn't share a similar life status as you? For me, I have to go back to my friends before grammar school to find anyone where our life paths have diverged so strongly. If success if the norm, then relative success can make you feel middle-classed vis a vi your friends, even when you most certainly are not.